I'm Buffing Characters...

Discussion in 'Characters' started by Other Aether, May 11, 2014.

  1. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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    Title says it all. One day, I decided "why rely on other people to do what I want? Why not do it myself?" and learned Smash Attacks to start balancing my Brawl- build. I have moderate skill in basic code, and I'm learning how to use PSA reasonably well. I'm posting this here so all of you guys can give me suggestions and (if you want) download my PSAs. In no way am I trying to undermine the development team. I think they're doing a fantastic job. So far no one is 100% finished, but I've worked on the following characters, with changelogs in spoilers. Nothing is finalized.
    -Sonic
    Sonic was massively buffed to get KOs earlier and easier, as well as quick gimps.

    Added electric sweetspot on the top of the second hitbox of uAir

    Added electric sweetspot on the furthest hitbox of fSmash

    Item throwing power x2

    fSmash sped up drastically

    uTilt KBG increased, sweetspot added

    Jab1 gets cape effect

    Hold A during fAir to semi-spike the foe

    fAir shield damage drastically increased

    uTaunt x0.3 FSM, spawns Beam Sword

    sTaunt tramples foes and buries them, dealing massive shield damage

    First hit of dSmash trips foe

    dAir cancels into air dodge during second hitbox

    uThrow low BKB with fixed knockback, forces chainthrows/tech chases. Damage decreased

    dThrow damage increased

    fThrow angle lowered, KBG increased

    Pummel damage 3->2, speed doubled

    All aerial landing lag decreased to 2 frames

    -Fox
    Fox was changed to feel more minus-y and less melee-y.

    General drastic increase of speed in all attacks, most attacks are now jump-cancellable.

    General damage output reduction.

    Dash attack speed increased. Damage reduced. Trajectory lowered.

    fTilt speed increased. Damage reduced.

    uTilt speed increased. Damage reduced.

    dTilt damage reduced. Forces trip.

    fSmash speed increased. Damage reduced. Shield cancellable.

    uSmash speed increased. Damage reduced.

    dSmash damage reduced. Jump-cancellable.

    nAir speed increased. Damage reduced.

    fAir first hit deals more knockback.

    bAir speed increased. Damage reduced. Hitbox extended.

    dAir speed increased. Damage reduced.

    uAir speed increased.

    fThrow changed to be a low fixed knockback throw ideal for combos.

    sTaunt shoots 9 lasers in quick succession at the end.

    dTaunt pulls foes towards him similarly to Captain Falcon's and can cancel into grabs.

    Jigglypuff
    Jigglypuff was changed to be the aerial monster it's supposed to be. [I know Jigglypuff is already good, but it didn't feel right to me. I'm buffing characters to make them more interesting to me, not necessarily because they're bad]

    Air Speed doubled.

    Aerial acceleration x10.

    Landing lag (from idle aerial position) removed.

    All attacks landing lag decreased.

    Hitbox size of bAir increased.

    nAir semi-spikes.

    Weight slightly decreased.

    EDIT: I'm working on Game & Watch at the moment. It's strictly experimental at this stage, but suffice it to say that it's ludicrous.

    I'm still in the process of testing and refining these three, and when I'm done I'll release the PSAs. If anyone wants them before then, I can release a developmental build. My potential candidates who I want to buff are:

    Diddy. I'm trying to work on him, but I can't figure out how to do what I want.

    Luigi. I want to give him a moveset with strong focus on elemental attacks and special effects, for some reason.

    Squirtle. Not quite sure what I'd change, but I want to change it.

    Game & Watch. See above. Not much room for creative liberty here.

    Samus. Tried to buff her, PSA wouldn't load the file and said that the index was outside the boundaries of the array or something. In short, I want to, but I can't. Help would be appreciated here.

    Got suggestions for who I should buff next, what the buffs should be, etc? I'd love to hear it. Please don't say "___ didn't need buffs" because I don't care who "needs" them, I care who I want to have them. Don't say "___ is too OP" unless you've tried it. If you have, I might change it for you, but again, I'm doing this for three people: Me, myself, and I.

    I may take requests depending on how much I like them.

    EDIT:

    Two beta releases that people can try if they want (they're not done!):
    -Sonic: https://www.dropbox.com/s/w8jopbcc8ogtyfm/FitSonic.pac
    -Fox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wo88gpmjimr482/FitFox.pac
    Feedback is appreciated.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 12, 2014
  2. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Samus you would need to do in hex. Anyone learning PSA is a pursuit I highly encourage, especially if it is in the spirit of making Minus better.

    Suggestions for actual buffs should go in a suggestion thread, so I wouldn't really ask for much input (as they'd make suggestions for Minus itself) but rather focus on your own experimentation regardless of how stupid an idea may actually sound, as you may turn out with something really fun!

    If your experimentation produces good results, they could possibly wind up in Minus itself, and I will be keeping interest in your developments!
     
  3. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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    How would I go about doing that?

    EDIT: While I'm asking, how do I adjust the properties of projectiles? For instance, I'm trying to make Diddy's peanuts fly faster, farther, lower, and shoot two at once (and maybe be on fire).
     
  4. Lightning

    Lightning Ikesexual

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    I think you need Article Floating Point Editor for projectiles..
     
  5. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Rest should be jump-cancellable on frames 2-30.
     
  6. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    i think diddy could use double firing speed or double shots like you said, slightly faster charging speed, and ability to walk while charging, similar to ray gun, fire flower, or super scope... that would actually really help for landing the explosion from an overcharged B... also, could it work so his dash or walking b attack goes into the peanut gun, like how kirby's walking/dashing b goes into the suck instead of the hammer?... that would really really help for diddy's spacing abilities..


    i love your ideas for fox's taunts btw, i always thought the "come on" tant should get a little bit of a pull, and giving his gun flip taunt a cool shot at the end is also awesome... personally, i was always hoping to see something like fox assault's chargeable blaster in super smash brothers... maybe if B is held instead of pressed it'll begin to charge stronger blasts...
    (white-ish) blue - green - darker blue - RED

    ((start @ 5:08))
    ... ...i think if it's not made possible to choose which one gets shot, then maybe at least we can change the colors of the shots of these guys...
    --fox could get (white-ish) blue to green if charged to get a little stronger
    --falco could get green to darker blue, if charged a little stronger
    --wolf could get the darker blue shots to RED if charged a little stronger
    ...if you look at slippy from that game, the one thing that made him (and peppy) stand above these guys in assault was the ability to charge their shots faster... with slippy, this was probably because he had better equipment, being the engineer and a selfish toad who didn't share... but since it looked like wolf modified his weapon to get that bayonet, maybe the difference between fox - falco - wolf's shots could get some things like that too:

    --wolf's gun could just stab if you press it, and slice when he pulls it back, similar to firebrand-ish, or maybe even do some kinda extended combo... and then if B is held, he'll shoot the shot he has, which could be like wario's waft or ROB's laser and automatically charge over time (maybe that bayonet on it is forcing the gun to constantly be charging a stronger shot while it's tucked away, you know?), and he can shoot the RED shot, and instead of just doing damage, maybe it actually has some knockback as well...

    --then, falco, maybe just to keep it simple, gets a "shotgun" ability with it, where if B is held down, he'll shoot multiple blasts "at once" (like his grabs, how he rapid fires like five shots at once), and it's activated by holding B instead of pressing, but requires a little endlag of "reloading" the gun, and maybe give it some horizontal knockback or stun so it's actually useful differently than the regular shots...

    --then with fox, he could use his regular blaster shots with no flinch damage, or charge if you hold B for a stronger shot that is similar to wolf's current blaster shot, but with some knockback to it, and MAYBE give it an "overcharge" ability to shoot something like what wolf's new RED shot would be...


    for luigi, if you do want to try giving him some elements to his moveset, i think the only cannon to him using different elements is also something i thought was missing from his moveset in brawl: the poltergust :D mario got the FLUDD, and i was wondering why luigi was left without any item type attacks... he felt a little naked to me without it, you know?.. luigi's only stand alone games were the luigi's mansion games, and in those games he had the ability to shoot out wind, fire, water, and ice... he could probably even get the pull effect mario gets with FLUDD, which he gets for no sensible reason other than combo potential and trying to separate it's identity from squirtle's water gun... maybe a taunt could make him pull out the poltergust and change his down B to pull, his neutral b could shoot the fireballs, and maybe ice randomly, or with a different input, and the side b could be a gust or something...

    on the note of squirtle's water gun, i don't really like icy wind being the weird "low charge" input move it is... personally, i think it would be a lot better if a fully charged (over-charged?) water gun made the move change into ice beam, which'd be a stronger freeze damage attack that maybe has more kill potential... maybe it's input is a "hold A while charging" type of thing... also, i think his down smash and his neutral air could be whirlpool with combo damage and a graphic similar to metaknight's neutral B, but blue, and maybe with a bit of water damage outside of the regular hitbox, and his side B could jet faster and have a small (but slightly larger than the visible water) water "push" hit box (like his water gun) a little outside the shell itself, like his hydro pump from the show, and the shell itself be either stronger and/or be cancellable into other moves, like up b if b is pressed, or maybe just A attacks...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 11, 2014
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  7. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    I can't tell if you're a comedian or a sadist, and it frightens me.
     
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  8. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    imagine if you could grab a ledge while resting O-O

    EDIT: OH! one side note on fox's pull taunt: if you do plan on making it grab cancellable, or maybe more easily grab cancellable than falcon if you're doing that with him too, then i think fox should get slightly less pull effect for his taunt than falcon does :p he's also a little smaller and for some reason that seems to make it make more sense that way..
     
  9. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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  10. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Also, speed Falco's laser firing speed up to around Fox's speed, and set max onscreen lasers from 6 to 30. Also make the lasers travel a little slower (I suggest about a 25% speed decrease).
     
  11. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    for diddy, i guess the walking while charging might be kinda cheap, but then how about still increasing the charge speed and like you suggested doing double shots that go lower/faster/further or something, and the on fire thing would be nice too, but also be able to use the peanut gun if you press b while the control stick is already tilted, like how i mentioned above...

    for fox/falco/wolf, i get that this would take a lot more work... maybe if possible, the one i think would be easiest is to make falco able to multi-shoot if you hold b, and just add some endlag if making the animation for reloading would take too much work or can't fit in... ... for fox/wolf, i could see the changes i suggested be a lot harder, but i'd love to see wolf able to do one of two shots, like how ROB can, and make it so the slash is a little stronger or multi-hits so if there's no shot charged yet it could be a melee weapon and maybe have a good use on its own... for fox, the ability to code something like this might not exist, but if phantomwing's article porting thing ever becomes easy to use, then maybe we could make fox (and wolf) shoot an edited version of samus's charge shot or something along those lines... obviously we could change the graphic for each to fit better, but the effect of fox/wolf's fully charged laser shots should be similar to a half-charged samus shot... (i'm only bringing up that similarity because i don't know how possible creating your own projectiles is :p)

    for luigi, we could try to use the animations from the cracker launcher for that neutral B idea, probably, and we could probably also use it for that down B idea too, or maybe the super scope's animation... (then i guess making the right projectiles again might be hard, but again, if porting articles is the way to go, then maybe ice climbers' blizzard (down B) could work..)

    for squirtle, i think that could help too... i'd still personally see the changes i described, but the water gun could go the way you described instead of the ice-beam way i suggested, too
     
  12. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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    Wolf is plenty good. Fox might need a few more buffs beyond where I have him atm, but doubtful. Falco is on my to-do list.
     
  13. Bashdemears

    Bashdemears Jiggs2stronk

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    What if falcos reflector shined if you tap b. Hold b to make it act the way it does currently. Maybe that will help his pillaring?
     
  14. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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    Good idea, but I'm not sure I know how to do that.

    I'm trying to change Charizard's grounded down-b to a completely different move. I changed the animation and all data for 1D9 and 1DA (the subactions down-b references) and changed the script for the move to reference them. However, when I use down-b, I go into the pokeball animation and then freeze in a t-pose. If someone has an idea what I'm missing, that'd be appreciated.
     
  15. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Also, I made a buff suggestion thread regarding Falco - you could check that out for more Falco buff ideas.
     
  16. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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    The problem is that I don't want him to be too pillar-centric. I kind of want to make my own characters, not based on any other games. Kind of a dumb sentiment, but I want to be making completely unique stuff... I like giving more "far out" buffs rather than just a JC or two.
     
  17. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    The reflector buff idea I had in that forum would still work to this goal - yeah he gets more smash attacks/tilts off of grounded reflector but it hardly makes his dair combos stronger (he has a way to suck them in but still won't be a god at follow ups). I can see why you'd skip the JCs though, if that's how you feel.
     
  18. CaptainEllipsis

    CaptainEllipsis Graphic/Character Designer

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    Two parts.
    Editing things like article hitboxes, actions, etc, you can use OSA for: open the .pac, head to the articles tab, find the action, subaction, or subroutine you want to mess with , copy/write down the offset and go to the offset in PSA.

    For things like how far a laser travels, base angle, etc. you have to hex values article floating points. some things like damage can be changed here too.
    I suggest Hex Editor Neo for a program (there's a free version too). I do believe Diddy's nuts are items though, and I have no idea how to mess with items.
     
  19. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, another buff idea - Fox shine needs to Frame 1 if it's not and has cancelability (ISAI?) frames all through the endlag (you can multishine by just holding down and mashing the B button rapidly - it would look visually similar if you hit it fast enough).
     
  20. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Hey Ellipsis, do you know if this change is possible?
     
  21. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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  22. Lightning

    Lightning Ikesexual

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    I think it is, but I'm not sure. If you look at 1.01 Ganondorf, you would see that holding B is for ganondokun and tapping be is the actual punch that's cancelable.

    Buutt, I don't think it's possible to have all 3. Something has to be sacrificed..
    Or maybe, ganondokun could be press B and then hold A.

    Then again, I don't know that much about PSA. :D
     
  23. Other Aether

    Other Aether Mediator

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    It is indeed. I can't find exactly where the change that makes it ignore shields is, but it is possible. I can't do the exact requested change, but I can make it be cancel-able and ignore shields. Unfortunately, my computer is out of order... Sorry, Bent. I should have it up in a day or two.
     
  24. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Sounds like it could work. What do you think, Other Aether? Would this work?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 19, 2014
  25. The Concept

    The Concept Philosopher & Assassin

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    There's some terminology I'm confused about. What is the difference between Type 1 and Type 3? Better question: What is Gandouken?
     

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