#FixGanondorf

[snidbert63]

Brawl Minus looks much more fun than Project M, but I'm considering going with PM over B- for one simple reason: Brawl Minus has ruined Ganondorf even more than official Smash.

Ganon needs a projectile? Why not give him one of his magic attacks from Ocarina of Time? But no, you just give him yet another made-up move: the "Gandoken." This is disappointing.

I'm not trying to hate, but I would suggest (is this even the right place for that?) that the B- devs give Ganondorf at least one Legend of Zelda-inspired move. Seriously. Like maybe have Fsmash use his sword or make dtaunt a counter or replace Wizard Foot with a homing magic attack or something?

 

[bandeaux]

i've never really played a zelda game nor have i ever really been a fan of the series but i could imagine that we could replace downB with something that's inspired from the series. never really been a big fan of wizard's foot

 

[snidbert63]

I for one would replace each and every one of Ganon's moves if I made a Smash mod or fangame. But I realize that many Minus players have become attached to the Ludicrously Powerful Punch. Perhaps they could replace Gandoken with Dead Man's Volley or something.

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Really, the entire point of B- Ganondorf is to be absolutely ludicrous in power, and I feel like they've done a great job. He's the ultimate punish character; mess up against him and you are pretty much dead from his ludicrous melee power.

But he has to have some exploitable weaknesses at all skill levels; thus, he doesn't have a true projectile.

 

[snidbert63]

Really, the entire point of B- Ganondorf is to be absolutely ludicrous in power, and I feel like they've done a great job. He's the ultimate punish character; mess up against him and you are pretty much dead from his ludicrous melee power.

But he has to have some exploitable weaknesses at all skill levels; thus, he doesn't have a true projectile.

That's not why I dislike B- Ganon. What would you think if, say, Ridley was added to Smash as a Charizard clone?

 

[Neville]

This is 100% never going to happen which has been confirmed by the devs. If that is the one thing that is going to make you drop Minus, so be it.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Ganon may not be true to his game series, but there's no denying he is ABSURDLY FUN! And that's what Minus is all about. Minus Ganon is the embodiment of what Minus is suppose to be. I hope he's never changed significantly.

 

[snidbert63]

This is 100% never going to happen which has been confirmed by the devs. If that is the one thing that is going to make you drop Minus, so be it.

Really? That sucks. Link to this? (Also, I thought Doqtor Kirby likes SSB Crusade's Ganon moveset, which fixes a few of Ganon's moves.)

 

[Neville]

Really? That sucks. Link to this? (Also, I thought Doqtor Kirby likes SSB Crusade's Ganon moveset, which fixes a few of Ganon's moves.)

I don' thave an exact quote because it was on Skypa a while ago (there might be something on the forums but I'm too lazy to find it). I'll just ask Pin Clock to confirm.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Really? That sucks. Link to this? (Also, I thought Doqtor Kirby likes SSB Crusade's Ganon moveset, which fixes a few of Ganon's moves.)

YOOOOOO! Minus Ganon is fun and all, but Crusade Ganon is the TRUTH! Idk why modders can make better iterations of Nintendo characters than Nintendo can. Lol

P.S. Love love LOVE that Crash Bandicoot is in Crusade I've always wanted Crash in Smash. He's my dream character and fits so perfectly!

 

[Pin Clock]

Doq likes Crusade Ganon, but that has nothing to do with Minus Ganon.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Doq likes Crusade Ganon, but that has nothing to do with Minus Ganon.

Cool cool cool...so what do I have to do to get you to put in Crash Bandicoot? YOU WOULD BE BREAKING THE LIMITS OF AMAZING IF YOU DID THAT!!!!!!!

 

[Kien]

Ganon needs a projectile? Why not give him one of his magic attacks from Ocarina of Time? But no, you just give him yet another made-up move: the "Gandoken." This is disappointing.

I'm not trying to hate, but I would suggest (is this even the right place for that?) that the B- devs give Ganondorf at least one Legend of Zelda-inspired move. Seriously. Like maybe have Fsmash use his sword or make dtaunt a counter or replace Wizard Foot with a homing magic attack or something?

There are reasons that this never came to fruition. But let me touch on a few things that you mentioned. Creating a projectile from scratch has issues in that they can't be reflected and they won't function as a real projectile. They have to be attached to the character, which means that him rising or falling would drag the projectile as well. To try and code something that homes is literally impossible last I checked. So that can't even begin to be a thing. As for the sword moves, I started making a sword ganon build based off of Ashingda's triforce ganon, which you should check out. If I'm not mistaken, I still have the build but I never finished it because the BR didn't want to fully revamp Ganon as a swordsman because of the playerbase who are already so used to him.

 

[snidbert63]

Doq likes Crusade Ganon, but that has nothing to do with Minus Ganon.

Oh, OK, Oh well.

There are reasons that this never came to fruition. But let me touch on a few things that you mentioned. Creating a projectile from scratch has issues in that they can't be reflected and they won't function as a real projectile. They have to be attached to the character, which means that him rising or falling would drag the projectile as well. To try and code something that homes is literally impossible last I checked. So that can't even begin to be a thing. As for the sword moves, I started making a sword ganon build based off of Ashingda's triforce ganon, which you should check out. If I'm not mistaken, I still have the build but I never finished it because the BR didn't want to fully revamp Ganon as a swordsman because of the playerbase who are already so used to him.

So you mean to tell me you can add whole new characters, but you can't add new true projectiles? Whatever, I guess I'd understand if I were a Brawl modder. As for Sword Ganon, maybe you could make it a separate character and rename the original Minus Ganon as "Dark Ganon" or something.

Also, thank you for your time, both of you.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Pretty sure projectile stuff like that is related to modules or something, which is a bit more complex than just making a new char.

 

[Kien]

It's related to articles. Each character has a certain number of them already and that number is limited. In order to give Ganon a real projectile, he'd likely have to be coded over someone else who has access to one but then he'd lose his command grabs unless the person he was coded over had them as well. I think Bowser is the only one with command grabs and articles though, and he doesn't have enough sfx to be a proper replacement in the event that anyone ever tried to do so.

 

[snidbert63]

It's related to articles. Each character has a certain number of them already and that number is limited. In order to give Ganon a real projectile, he'd likely have to be coded over someone else who has access to one but then he'd lose his command grabs unless the person he was coded over had them as well. I think Bowser is the only one with command grabs and articles though, and he doesn't have enough sfx to be a proper replacement in the event that anyone ever tried to do so.

Which is why PM uses Kirby's Final Cutter for his Roy hat, and used Disable instead of Shadow Ball for his Mewtwo hat! But 1. I can live without command grabs if you give Ganon a real moveset. Flame Choke and Dark Dive are just made-up anyway, and 2. Lucario has a projectile as well as a command grab.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Flame Choke is Dorf's best move, and getting rid of it would piss off any dedicated Dorf main, myself included.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Which is why PM uses Kirby's Final Cutter for his Roy hat, and used Disable instead of Shadow Ball for his Mewtwo hat! But 1. I can live without command grabs if you give Ganon a real moveset. Flame Choke and Dark Dive are just made-up anyway, and 2. Lucario has a projectile as well as a command grab.

You serious, man? Do you even realize what you're saying here??? DORF WITH NO FLAME CHOKE?!?!?!? I think I speak for everyone (except you) in saying "SCREW THAT IDEA!!!" Lol...Dorf doesn't even need a projectile. He just needs a useful neutral B. That'll prolly never happen though due to the attachment the devs have to 666 WP... *disappointed sigh*

 

[Gold_TSG]

WP should send him forward several feet with an active hitbox and armor. I'll rename it The Dorf Train. Ain't no stoppin the powah.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

WP should send him forward several feet with an active hitbox and armor. I'll rename it The Dorf Train. Ain't no stoppin the powah.

That honestly sounds much more Minusy than the current WP. I'd be cool w/ it if he only had Dorf Train when grounded. He's already got Flame Choke to propel him in the air for recovery.

They could make Dorf Train replace Gandouken! That'd be SOOOOOO much better.

 

[snidbert63]

You serious, man? Do you even realize what you're saying here??? DORF WITH NO FLAME CHOKE?!?!?!? I think I speak for everyone (except you) in saying "SCREW THAT IDEA!!!" Lol...Dorf doesn't even need a projectile. He just needs a useful neutral B. That'll prolly never happen though due to the attachment the devs have to 666 WP... *disappointed sigh*

Are you for real? If Toad were added to Smash as a Ness clone, would you want him to get actual, legitimate, Mario-inspired moves, or would you get attached to his Ness-clone moveset and whine if they change it?

Ganon needs a projectile, not because it would help his metagame, but because he has projectiles in his games.

 

[snidbert63]

There are reasons that this never came to fruition. But let me touch on a few things that you mentioned. Creating a projectile from scratch has issues in that they can't be reflected and they won't function as a real projectile. They have to be attached to the character, which means that him rising or falling would drag the projectile as well. To try and code something that homes is literally impossible last I checked. So that can't even begin to be a thing.

Alright, this might just be a stupid idea coming from a guy who's never modded anything more complex than a flash game, but you can have moves that equip characters with items, and I'm guessing you can make them automatically throw them. So maybe you could change an item (maybe one of the broken pieces of Samus's Power Suit?) to Dead Man's Volley and replace "Gandoken" with that. And as for the fact that anyone could just "catch" it with good timing, that IMO would be an upside, to have two characters throwing an increasingly deadly projectile back and forth between them, sort of like in Ocarina of Time.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

Are you for real? If Toad were added to Smash as a Ness clone, would you want him to get actual, legitimate, Mario-inspired moves, or would you get attached to his Ness-clone moveset and whine if they change it?

Ganon needs a projectile, not because it would help his metagame, but because he has projectiles in his games.

Your statement about the clone debate is irrelevant in speaking of Flame Choke because it is completely unique to Ganon. He doesn't need a projectile. If you want him to have one, you can try advocating for it; despite the devs taking the time to explain why its never happened. But Smash is a game that Ganon is in, Just like an LoZ title, and Flame Choke has become a staple of the character. I promise you its not going anywhere. Even PM, the game you claim you're going to play instead of Minus, has Ganon with Flame Choke and no projectile.

 

[Kien]

They could make Dorf Train replace Gandouken! That'd be SOOOOOO much better.

I'm gonna end up making a proof of concept build of this and having it get rejected, watch.

"other dude"
As for spawning suit pieces, certain items can only be spawned if the character who they relate to is present.