Experiment: Is Sonic's D-Air Spike Overpowered? (YES)

Discussion in 'Sonic' started by Bent 00, Aug 29, 2014.

  1. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

    Minnesota (for summer), UIUC (for school year)
    B- FC:
    If you can DI it, that actually would just be bad DI on the receiving end, no?

    Glad to see this was fixed [Thanks Bent].

    Had to go back and read what Glyph said... here's what he said...

    First, NEW suggestion - make Warlock Punch taunt-cancellable only - Ganondorf can then whip out his sword if he screws up with it, but he will still be punishable at the end (but won't lose to another Warlock or Falcon Punch for example, and can time it to beat out an fsmash or something]. He'd still be disadvantaged, but it would make the move safer without being broken (since just wait for the sword to go away and smack him). I think this cancel would be awesome, Minusy, and it wouldn't be any action but only taunts. That's just a happy medium I came up with. (Airborne one would need something else...).

    1. Brawl- doesn't abide by general smash rules (heck vBrawl MK didn't - dominance on-stage, dominance offstage, no lag on his most powerful attack [afterlag], other stuff) so I don't know why we'd bind this move to an arbitrary ruleset - as a better example [and Minusy one], Ness's grab has low endlag and low startup AND beats shields, but it can KO at 130% on nearly the entire cast - that's bad game design too, we should add endlag to it, right? Your Ike fsmash example is silly because Ike fsmash has low startup - Warlock Punch is the highest startup attack in the game (bar some recoveries, like Firebird MIGHT and PKT probably does], it can have no or low endlag just fine.

    2. Falcon Punch is a signature move XD and it's been given amazing buffs that make it awesome (the taunt makes it usable) [his knee is close but it isn't Falcon Punch]. Heck it's the most iconic move in smash and it was the only thing even close to a real fighting move Captain Falcon did outside of smash - ask someone who barely plays video games and they probably will know that there is a thing called the Falcon Punch out there. Warlock Punch is just as signature for Ganondorf (or the Wiz Kick aka Megabus which also was sadly nerfed) but I won't really argue this further because I don't think buffing signatures moves is necessarily a great route either [BUFF MACH TORNADO PLEASE!!! IT'S HIS ULTIMATE SIGNATURE MOVE!!! was the route I'd have taken explaining that to Bent, but not "there are no signature moves."]

    3. It would reward a Ganondorf who knows the opponent is aiming to avoid Gandouken and could punish more readily if he didn't have a cancel at all - and some characters are so fast he'll almost never get to use the Gandouken anyway (Sheik, ROB), so I think this could help him get away when he slightly misjudges a Gandouken and can get away quickly then or possibly counterattack - it would make people more wary of blindly rushing in, but it wouldn't actually stop people from punishing it if they know the timing - it's just a bit of leeway for Ganondorf and makes his Warlock Punch something that deserves slightly more respect.

    4. No to power reduction, yes to lag [or taunt] cancel.

    5. You can mixup with cancels or Gandoukens, so they have to be quick or else wait it out, providing the Gandouken some added safety (which against good player just comes out too slow to ever be useful against campers and only works as a mildly effective edgeguarding tool , so I think the mixup options would aid the Gandouken a lot, since they have to respect it ever so slightly more if they are halfway across the stage on FD).

    6. No offstage Gandouken (PLEASE NO) but offstage WP is cool - some sort of aerial-only cancel or Bent's SFWP would be good enough for me, even if my taunt-cancel or the full cancel can't get back in.

    7. Gandouken is an awesome projectile that's rarely ever safe except when the range is too low and WP is an awesome edgeguarding trick that I think shouldn't be told no because it's hard to land and there are better onstage options - if you want to use a ground Warlock Punch to punish my Firebird, it having no endlag means even if you miss you won't be punished, which I think is cool and Minusy.

    Just because you shouldn't do it doesn't mean it's not awesome, and I think as Sneak as said, Minus is lacking some awesome stuff. This would be a small step in the right direction, AT LEAST the SFWP (even w/out flub hitboxes) and/or taunt-cancelling to project yourself from full-charged smashes (and eating half charges instead).

    Players should hit him during the windup - if he fires his punch, he should be able to somehow protect himself.

    And that move is still massively unsafe lol that's like calling his old utilt safe if they removed endlag - it's still massively punishable without endlag, and slightly more so with endlag.

    So yeah, those are my thoughts on Glyph's thoughts.
  2. Glyph

    Glyph Moderator

    4 people like this.
  3. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

    On the road to Viridian City!
    What happened.....
  4. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

    B- FC:
    I asked for Thor's opinion, and he posted it. No problems there.

    Thanks for your thoughts on the matter, Thor. It's good to hear someone else's perspective on it.

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