BUFFS

[13131]

which three characters do you hope will be returning bufffffffed?

for example... samus, sonic, ice climbers.

samus- too slow, too awkward, too nerfed for max.

sonic- no KO power

ice climbers- i don't know where to begin.

 

[Thor]

Meta Knight, Meta Knight, and Meta Knight.

Meta Knight - has always been the best, should be so in Brawl- as well.

Meta Knight - is a boss, deserves buffs.

Meta Knight - his recovery is arguably not #1. Fix this.

Seriously though, I'd like to see buffs on Samus (I've never played her much but I think she's supposed to suck), ICs (their best attribute is ice block camping on green hill zone), and probably a few changes to Pichu from its Melee form - that thing probably can't keep up in Brawl- as it was in Melee (unless it gets CGs, then maybe...). If I can't choose the new character, then probably buff... toss up for me but since I get the feeling I should only list one, I'd like to see a range increase on Ness's PKT2 - Ness is soooooo gimpable by characters like MK with the mediocre range that thing has - something closer (or longer than) PM would be appreciated.

 

[Sammi-husky]

I like this thread, it's going in the right direction lol. I'd love to hear more of your guys opinions and ideas on this subject!

 

[Ferrous Faucet]

They should buff Akuma from Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo.

 

[NEWB]

I sympathize with gimping ness, but remember, ness is a combo machine and a power house! He is designed to be a sort of glass cannon. That's what has been said in the past anyway.

Also remember that matchups are a thing. Characters are sometimes buffed or reworked because of specific matchups, but that's only if it was seen as game breaking, I think. Keep that in mind.

I agree that samus, sonic and IC's are probably the ones in most need of help.

Samus is just worst than she has ever been. This moveset is good, but her old one was much better. Samus wasn't op or anything back then, so it makes ZERO sense that she wound up weaker, just for the sake of nodding to her game. There is already a thread about samus here where I posted all her major changes that need readjusting. I'd look there for them. Like fox, samus is probably better off staying true to the smash series than her games..

Sonic is almost complete! But he is just slightly lacking in kill power. SLIGHTLY. He needs like one more thing I think amend he will be fine.

IC's is just balls awful. Only because of that recovery. You die cuz you and nana do upb at the same time, so it screws up. You also die cuz you want to upb, but nana is stuck interacting with the ledge. Or nana is just dead, cuz it is a lot easier to hit nana away because of the power of the moves in minus. Fix these gay ass problems before we get to the moveset. Their moveset is actually pretty decent, but not nearly enough to compensate for their mediocre recovery.

 

[Pin Clock]

What's funny about this thread is we already have solutions for all three of these characters, and I hope you'll like what we've come up with!

 

[13131]

this was more of a conversation thread than a suggestion thread. (and to glean some information)

but that's good to hear.

 

[Bent 00]

I say Falcon needs help against characters that can zone him hard, like R.O.B., Ivysaur, and Samus. He's one of the few characters in Minus without a projectile. Perhaps he could spawn himself a Franklin Badge if up taunt is held a while? He could say the unused, quiet "Yess" when successful. This way, after each KO he would have the choice of charging up an instant Falcon Punch or putting on the Badge. I like the idea of buffing his side taunt enough to make it actually useful even more.

I'd like to see two new taunts and a more efficient F. Smash for Snake -- a single, faster, more powerful rocket that can be fired from 7 directions (not straight down), maybe?

I'm still learning him, but Pikachu seems like he would benefit from a few small buffs. Being able to attack after Up B would be nice.

The timing for YOSHIFOOT is awkward, but workable I suppose...

ZSS needs a way to CHOOSE what her whip attacks do offstage: attack or home in on a ledge. Also, her tether recovery is unreliable; it will often just tap a ledge, but then let go, sending ZSS to a frustrating fall. It's like the tether is saying, "Yeahh, I can reach this ledge, buut I don't really feel like grabbing it and saving you... Too bad!" This seems to happen more often when a ledge is above and behind ZSS. I recall it happening more often with Up B than Side B, as well.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Falcon is pretty much fine. He can handle zoning, he just can't handle being WoP'd to death by rob. I've dealt with Ivy and Samus fine as him otherwise.

Pikachu is fine, you just need to learn him better. I've been screwed pretty hard before by him.

Yoshi Boot is being removed, so don't even worry about it.

Zamus just plain needs a new recovery. I suggest looking at the redesigned recovery that was revealed in the recent Nintendo direct.

 

[Bent 00]

Falcon is pretty much fine. He can handle zoning, he just can't handle being WoP'd to death by rob. I've dealt with Ivy and Samus fine as him otherwise.

I see no reason not to make his Side Taunt at least useable and worth using occasionally. It should at least be made cancellable.

Pikachu is fine, you just need to learn him better. I've been screwed pretty hard before by him.

Got any tips other than to watch the replays on DukeBattleDrive?

Yoshi Boot is being removed, so don't even worry about it.

Just... Removed? But it was so fun to land! Why not just change the timing? Plus, I thought YOSHIFOOT was in the preview trailer.

Zamus just plain needs a new recovery. I suggest looking at the redesigned recovery that was revealed in the recent Nintendo direct.

Plasmacopter.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Play against good pikachu.

"Things in the trailer are subject to change."

I want plasmacopter.

Falcon really doesn't need anything to his taunts.

 

[Bent 00]

Play against good pikachu.

That won't be an option after May 20...

Falcon really doesn't need anything to his taunts.

Even if he doesn't NEED it, multiple players have said they'd like to see Side Taunt buffed. It wouldn't hurt anything, so why not! If Sonic can cancel his taunts, there's no reason Falcon shouldn't be able to.

"Buffs errywhere", right? What ELSE would you buff of Falcon's? I can't think of any other part of his moveset that needs work... Except that long drop at the end of his aerial Side B (which I've heard is getting improved).

 

[Glyph]

Actually, PM is successfully running on a new server via Netplay (I think) and it should be possible to get minus running on something similar as well.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Why does he need buffs for the sake of giving him buffs? Why should he be able to handle everything in the game? No other character has that kind of luxury, cause we want to preserve the idea of good/bad matchups.

 

[Bent 00]

Why does he need buffs for the sake of giving him buffs? Why should he be able to handle everything in the game? No other character has that kind of luxury, cause we want to preserve the idea of good/bad matchups.

I recall R.O.B. and Lucario having very few disadvantaged matchups, and there's probably more I've forgotten.

Anyway, just giving Falcon's side taunt a cancel isn't much of a buff. -_-;

As-is, it's NEVER worth using, unless you want to get smacked in the face.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Which is... Why you don't use it for anything but taunting.

 

[Bent 00]

Actually, PM is successfully running on a new server via Netplay (I think) and it should be possible to get minus running on something similar as well.

That's great news!

Which is... Why you don't use it for anything but taunting.

You can't even use it for that, without getting punished. It might as well be Falcon damaging himself.

Is anyone else against giving Falcon's side taunt a cancel?

 

[Gold_TSG]

Who in their right mind taunts before KOing their opponent? It already has the unnecessary pull effect on it, which screws him over hard. I don't care if you can cancel it, but I don't feel he needs either effect. This is no different than saying everyone should have a bonus effect on their taunts, just cause. Fox says "Come on!" too. Does he need a pull or cancel as well?

I'm just saying. If he doesn't NEED the buff, then why fight for if?

 

[Bent 00]

Who in their right mind taunts before KOing their opponent? It already has the unnecessary pull effect on it, which screws him over hard. I don't care if you can cancel it, but I don't feel he needs either effect. This is no different than saying everyone should have a bonus effect on their taunts, just cause. Fox says "Come on!" too. Does he need a pull or cancel as well?

I'm just saying. If he doesn't NEED the buff, then why fight for if?

Taunting before K.O.ing someone as Falcon is awesome. Falcon's character is all about being daring; full of himself but skilled enough to back it up! I'm not saying this is something one should do often; skilled opponents should see right through it. But that makes the success even sweeter when it finally does work on someone.

I'm supporting it because it has the potential to make Falcon more flashy and fun to play IMO. I should know, I main the heck outta the Captain.

The relevant difference between Falcon and Fox here is that Fox has a ranged attack and a REFLECTOR. Falcon has neither of those tools to help him against ranged opponents.

 

[NEWB]

Well, that's cuz his character wasn't designed to handle projectiles well.

I also have a sinking suspicion that some characters like rob have too few bad matchups. Some characters in minus I feel can only be beaten by a bad match up for them. This is kinda lame.

 

[Bent 00]

I also have a sinking suspicion that some characters like rob have too few bad matchups. Some characters in minus I feel can only be beaten by a bad match up for them. This is kinda lame.

I agree. R.O.B. and Lucario have too few unfavorable matchups, and their mainers are unlikely to lose unless you're using one of the few characters that have an advantage over them.

Any other characters like this? Who are DK, Dedede, and Ivysaur weak against?

 

[Glyph]

That would only be true if the players were on an equal skill level. As is there is no unbeatable character in the game, regardless of matchup.

 

[Thor]

Glyph too good. Dat comeback tho: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiNA20D9bQY

Were Lucario's 1.01 nerfs insufficient? He's much easier to deal with at low percents (compared to before) and he needs to avoid stray hits at high percents or it can be the stock.

I feel like Falco does well against ROB (evenish) if he's got his spacing down super tight, but I don't know. I feel like Falco also does well against Lucario (evenish), but both these thoughts might be a Falco bias thing (his reflector and lasers give him several options). Unlike when I play a disadvantageous MU and feel helpless (Which is stupid unless it's Brawl Ganon ICs or something else awful), I just feel bad at the game when Glyph zero-deaths me or whatever (But also like I will improve, so it's okay).

But beyond Falco, a fair number of characters feel less than optimal versus those two. I get the feeling Fox goes about even versus those two as well, because he's Fox, but this is a gut feeling more than me being able to play Fox.

 

[Sammi-husky]

Were Lucario's 1.01 nerfs insufficient? He's much easier to deal with at low percents (compared to before) and he needs to avoid stray hits at high percents or it can be the stock.

At the current standpoint Lucario is fine, he was nerfed before i was in the BR, and I PERSONALLY nerfed him even further once i was in the BR. I've said before, The community here is too small to accurately judge a characters potential vs another characters potential without substantial evidence. for example, pre-nerf lucario. It was CLEAR he was the best, and measures were taken. If you wan't to counter Lucario, i HIGHLY suggest learning sheik. At her high level play she counters lucario. mainly because she's so fast and disappears on dash and dodge, as well as is a combo MONSTER, giving the Lucario no chance to fight back. after the nerfs, Lucario requires a High level of precision, and now he's even weaker at low percents. any mistakes against sheik can be your stock.

Of course this again, is all based on the skill level of the player vs opponent matchup.

this applies to me as well! i cannot accurately assess a characters prowess either since i don't play all characters, or play enough players who main them to assess them, however i can speak from my (extensive) experiences with fighting AGAINST sheik as Lucario.

Also, to clarify, netplay is a dolphin feature. The PMBR has stated that they have no interest in hosting a private server for Brawl whether it was possible or not. (and it's currently not) after WiFi is shut off, if you wan't to play online you will have to play on dolphin. (don't worry it's not bad, it's better then nintendo's servers by alot depending on connection)


AND WITH THAT NOTE, I MAY PLAY WIFI SOMETIME THIS WEEK~

 

[Gold_TSG]

PLAY WITH ME HUSKY!!

I still don't think Falcon needs and further buffs, and I don't even know what was changed in the upcoming update. He is a fast, powerful character that can go through projectiles, and he seems plenty flashy to me. Don't forget that I main him too, Bent.