Wolf Aerial Melee Dodge?

[Lucis Perficio]

Hey guys, recently in a match between Wolf and C. Falcon, my Wolf was knocked off the stage, and I accidentally button mashed in panic, resulting in Wolf performing a Melee dodge, strangely.

I'm certain it was a melee dodge and not simply a dodge-jump, because I was helpless afterwards, and I shifted horizontally without actually jumping, thus falling to my death.

I know that Wolf can wavedash out of his side-b, but if he has an actual Melee dodge, I'd like to use it, though it doesn't work when used intentionally. If I can't use it, could it at least be taken out?

 

[Thor]

Hey guys, recently in a match between Wolf and C. Falcon, my Wolf was knocked off the stage, and I accidentally button mashed in panic, resulting in Wolf performing a Melee dodge, strangely.

I'm certain it was a melee dodge and not simply a dodge-jump, because I was helpless afterwards, and I shifted horizontally without actually jumping, thus falling to my death.

I know that Wolf can wavedash out of his side-b, but if he has an actual Melee dodge, I'd like to use it, though it doesn't work when used intentionally. If I can't use it, could it at least be taken out?

If you use side+B and press L or R + a direction in the air, you'll get an airdodge where you control the direction and become helpless. Unlike with Fox, who does this by airdodge + direction, Wolf does it with side+b + R or L + direction.

I assume in your button mashing you managed to input side+B followed by R or L and a direction, and thus airdodged to your death.

If you were trying to use it offstage with side+B -> R or L+ direction and couldn't, that's some sort of bug.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I honestly don't think Wolf needs it, and if he really needs it, it shouldn't be some wonky combination of buttons. It should be as basic as Fox's.

 

[Lucis Perficio]

I honestly don't think Wolf needs it, and if he really needs it, it shouldn't be some wonky combination of buttons. It should be as basic as Fox's.

I feel he could make good use of it considering his only approach option would otherwise be to side-b diagonally into the air, which would mean he would always have to bait jumps with lasers, which are going to be nerfed in the next update.

So is the melee dodge only usable upon startup of the dash? If so it really only seems useful for wavedashing, unless he can reflect out of it the way Fox can reflect out if his melee dodge if properly timed.

 

[Mawootad]

That seems really bizarre. I'll go and see if that's an unintended glitch or if that's intentional and if it is I'll actually make it not totally bizarre.

 

[NEWB]

I think elf uses side b to start airdodging because he falls like a rock maybe? Sideb stops all his momentum so he can then melee airdodge. This could also be intended as a way to fake out his opponent by wavedash ing instead of sidebing.

Wolf can make great use of wavedash ing out of his down special since he also shine combos. He may not really need it though since he already has a decent combo game. Maybe the thought process was that it's really cool because the protagonist and antagonist have a similar technique.

 

[Thor]

That seems really bizarre. I'll go and see if that's an unintended glitch or if that's intentional and if it is I'll actually make it not totally bizarre.

I honestly don't think Wolf needs it, and if he really needs it, it shouldn't be some wonky combination of buttons. It should be as basic as Fox's.

This button combination was assigned intentionally, as it makes it MUCH easier to do perfect wavelands [that is, to gain the maximum distance from a Wolfdash (name for Wolf's wavedash that I've seen)]. I believe it is because Wolf has very high traction, so if he didn't have this input and you didn't grind out the time to be perfect, you'd end up having a wavedash about as long as Link's in Melee, which is to say pretty terrible. This is why it's coded as is.

No comment on whether he needs it or not, but I think it's cool and it's sometimes a useful option for getting onstage [since the startup of Wolf Flash is punishable, if you're above stage cancelling into an airdodge will often let you dodge through an attack and land onstage or grab ledge safely].

 

[Gold_TSG]

The question I have for that is, would it not be possible to acquire that same effect with a normal melee-dodge?

 

[NEWB]

If timed right, probably? Maybe they just literally wanted to give wolf both types of dodges like fox has two airdodges. Best I can explain it.

Actually I believe it was said that wolf isn't actually able to melee dodge up because of his weight. That doesn't have anything to do with wave landing but this all probably just has to do with how his properties are and the button inputs were chosen for this reason.

 

[Thor]

The question I have for that is, would it not be possible to acquire that same effect with a normal melee-dodge?

You have to be frame-perfect to aquire the same effect. I guess with buffer it's maybe SLIGHTLY easier because you could be too fast, but if Wolf jumpsquat is 4 frames, you have to hit jump then L or R 5 frames or less after you jump, or else you won't achieve a perfect waveland. For reference, Pikachu's dsmash in Brawl comes out frame 6, so think of hitting jump on the same frame a Pikachu c-sticks a dsmash, and hitting L or R before the attack actually starts hitting. It really is that quick.

Fox has a 3 frame jumpsquat, but to see how hard that is [for anyone], pick Fox, then try to perfect wavedash [where you jump and hit L or R only holding right or left] which can be done in Melee, PM, and Brawl Minus. If Fox does a wavedash [and it will be a long one], you got it. If Fox airdodges directly right or left, insert Sonic taunt here.

For the record, most Fox players I know personally don't perfect wavedash out of shine. I think that's something on the level of guys like Colbol, Hax, Silent Wolf, Armada, etc., and they either rarely do it except when they really need it or have grinded to near perfect consistency, because the penalty for screwing up is a jump [too early] or a jump and airdodge [too late] and the latter is extremely punishable, while jumps can still be read and punished in Melee.

Brawl Minus Fox doesn't need it because A) much lower traction = long wavedashes anyway and B) it's supposed to be Melee-hard or whatever [in trying to faithfully replicate him, although his uthrow still sucks horribly]. But Wolf has a short Wolfdash as is, hence the unique input mechanics to ensure the Wolfdash isn't simply not worth implementing [and for what it's worth, both BC and I use it rarely even though it's easy to do - Wolfdash dsmash is nice but I often just do it out of a run . It is useful to slightly extend the range of fsmash and to microspace around attacks though.].

 

[Gold_TSG]

Eh, it's not like I play either chars, so it doesn't really bother me. I just figured I'd get clarification on odd decisions.

The only thing ever holding me back with Fox is his jump speed. It starts so quickly that I can't consistently short hop with him like I can with literally anyone else.