Peach (Heart Power System)

[Kien]

So Peach has these attacks... that have these hearts... and like.. Heart Power. I want it to be a thing. Where she unlocks more and more options as she plays, but only when a heart move lands. There won't be any game breaking buffs but I think a lot of small tweaks could really make her an even more enjoyable character.

Problem is, I don't know what she needs exactly. I was thinking between 6 and 8 small buffs. Any ideas what they could be?

 

[justadood]

side b becomes a much stronger one, maybe add a heart to her smash up a, like her tilt up b, and maybe hearts on her up b, like mario's up B, and heart hitbox on her umbrella when floating down... idk, but i noticed that there a lot more hearts but not much they do i was hoping for something like this too, but not too much... it'd be pretty cool, but it's not the first thing we need done or anything

 

[justadood]

some attacks getting heart effects on them would make perfect sense

 

[NEWB]

Sounds interesting. Remember though, that peach is already a good character, but no one can really abuse all of her cancels. So careful with buffing her.

 

[Bent 00]

So you want to give Peach a system similar to the one I've heard Ike is getting? Hmm...

All of Ike's moves get powered up in "No Sympathy" mode, but he damages himself with each one, and loses the effect if he uses Eruption.

How should Peach's Heart mode work... Here are a few random ideas:

Her Final Smash consists of putting everyone to sleep and spawning a bunch of Peaches. Sleep and Recovery. Considering that...

How about this: When Peach lands enough hits with Heart attacks, she enters... Heart mode? Ha, think of a better name later. Anyhow, while in this mode, she could have some of the following buffs:

- Her "Lalalalalala" taunt puts opponents to sleep. Very short range.
- A fire effect is added to her Frying Pan, and it does a little more damage. No extra knockback.
- Her Golf Club sends opponents farther, at more of an arc trajectory.
- Her Tennis Racket sends foes away at a lower angle.
- Toad's spores do a little more damage and have higher knockback.
- Heart moves heal Peach a little whenever they hit during Heart Mode. Big hearts only, like U-Tilt and Side-B.
- An electric effect is added to F-Air, along with slightly higher knockback OR damage.
- One of her throws is weakened, but gives the Flower effect.
- Foes bounce off of her parasol taunt and Up-B, taking slight damage.
- A fully-charged F-Smash swings her umbrella. Weaker than the other 3 items, but fires a large gust of wind.
- Her "Peachy" taunt spawns a peach.

More powerful buffs that would end Heart Mode if used:
- Hold Down-B to draw a guaranteed Bob-omb.
- Hold Neutral-B for Toad to fire a Poison Mushroom instead of spores, OR fire differently-colored spores that shrink the target.
- If she grabs an opponent, does not hit pummel them, and releases them, both the foe and Peach are healed fully OR by a set amount.

Disadvantages to Heart Mode:
- Perhaps it should be a choice to use this mode, instead of an automatic thing?
- Maybe Peach should be lighter, take slightly more damage from each hit, and/or have another weakness.
- Heart Mode should be lost when Peach is KO'ed, unless the buffs aren't that strong or the weaknesses justify them staying.

I know most of those ideas won't work -- I don't even play as Peach often -- but maybe some of them will?

 

[Bent 00]

Alternately, Heart Mode could be as simple as just having her Heart moves heal Peach with each hit until she gets KO'ed.

That way, it's a reward for Peach doing really well, but it's easy for her to lose it if she lets her guard down.

...

Please keep in mind that I do not play Peach often at all.

 

[justadood]

i think a good idea would be that the umbrella taunt is what makes her sidesmash an umbrella smack and/or gust of wind blast... also, i like the idea of heart moves healing, but maybe only after a certain damage, like 85%... make it so you can only heal if you are at or above 85%... adding hearts to her up b would be nice, even if it's just aesthetic... also, the "peachy" taunt spawning a peach sounds fun, but i'd like the toad firing poison mushrooms thing to be an ultra taunt thing instead, and not automatic with some new "heart mode ....i think the "Laalala-lalaala" taunt should be interruptable into certain moves, like toad, and maybe if you secure this "taunt-toad-counter", it gives the poison mushroom effect to who was slow enough to hit it, since you need to see it in advance and basically be waiting for the attack for a little while... ....lastly, i think that on activation, peach's fs should heal her a certain amount, since most characters steal the peaches if you miss them anyway... just maybe a 15% heal on activation, and then more peaches should also make it alright....

 

[Lightning]

i think a good idea would be that i like the idea of heart moves healing, but maybe only after a certain damage, like 85%... make it so you can only heal if you are at or above 85%...

I think it should around 100%. And maybe 95%.

More powerful buffs that would end Heart Mode if used:
- Hold Down-B to draw a guaranteed Bob-omb.
- If she grabs an opponent, does not hit pummel them, and releases them, both the foe and Peach are healed fully OR by a set amount.

I don't think that would be a great idea. I think it would make Peach overpowered if the Bob-ombs were to be Peach's Down-b. Even in Heart Mode.
Also, I think the grab release healing should only affect the opponent. That way, it's a drawback for not pummeling or throwing them.

Other then that, I like your ideas.

 

[Kien]

So you want to give Peach a system similar to the one I've heard Ike is getting? Hmm...
How should Peach's Heart mode work... Here are a few random ideas:

Her Final Smash consists of putting everyone to sleep and spawning a bunch of Peaches. Sleep and Recovery. Considering that...

How about this: When Peach lands enough hits with Heart attacks, she enters... Heart mode?
- A fire effect is added to her Frying Pan, and it does a little more damage. No extra knockback.
- Toad's spores do a little more damage and have higher knockback.
- Foes bounce off of her parasol taunt and Up-B, taking slight damage.
- Her "Peachy" taunt spawns a peach.
- Hold Neutral-B for Toad to fire a Poison Mushroom instead of spores.

Disadvantages to Heart Mode:
I know most of those ideas won't work -- I don't even play as Peach often -- but maybe some of them will?

Heart Power won't be like NS mode. It won't be a mode that she enters. Think of it as a level up system. She will be able to level up multiple times per battle.
There will be no disadvantages to Peach's heart power. The ones that I think could work I left.

 

[Pin Clock]

My main issue with a level up system is being able to communicate such a thing in Smash. It's not really something that can be fixed either, it's just Smash has no dang Character gauges.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Peach's level up system would be similar to Frank West's from UMvC3. His method of experience is taking photos of his opponents during/after a combo (don't play much Frank so you'll have to forgive me) and the number of hits in said combo adding to his "experience" to level up. Counting the numbers in your head is something a Frank player would have to do so he can keep track of leveling up, which is also important since he regains some of his red health on level up. In addition, his moves not only get enhanced, but he unlocks new moves at certain levels. I'm assuming Peach would be getting a system like that.

However, the thing Frank has that Peach doesn't is an easy visible indicator of which level he is currently at, which can let all players know what Frank's current damage output is as well as what abilities he can or cannot do. With no easy visible indicator of what level she's at, or no way of measuring when she'd level up, players on both ends would be confused about what she can currently do and not do, and adding a method or indicator would be tough without it potentially getting in the way. We would also need to determine what happens when Peach dies. Frank has good stamina, but Frank dies and doesn't come back. Peach is a lightweight and revives after death. I imagine a level would be reduced?

Also forgot, one thing that communicates Frank's abilities is the fact that UMvC3 has a command list on the pause menu that tells you what gets unlocked at what level. Smash has no such thing, and thus a Peach player would have to do research to see what she can do.

The system would have to be really well communicated in order to work properly, especially if she's getting multiple levels to separate it from NS Mode

 

[Ferrous Faucet]

The only character I know of that has a system like that is Shun Di from the Virtua Fighter series, but I don't play a lot of fighting games. Frank West and his photos sounds like the same concept. Shun Di gets access to new moves as he takes more drinks, and if a character is fighting as Shun Di there is a small indicator in the corner of the screen that shows how many drinks Shun Di has taken. Certain moves make him take a quick drink after hitting his opponents. I haven't played Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution in a long time but I think the drinks would decrease over time and/or as Shun Di takes damage or gets knocked down or something (I never used Shun Di much even when I did play VF4E so I never was sure how exactly it worked).

The system would have to be really well communicated in order to work properly, especially if she's getting multiple levels to separate it from NS Mode

In Shun Di's case, the indicator simply shows the number of drinks he has taken. The player has to know that if he has taken 9 drinks, he can do a certain new move, or if he has 12 drinks he can do another move or whatever is the case. Also, if you have access to a certain new move at 12 drinks, if the number of drinks decreases from time passing then you can no longer do that move until you get up to 12 drinks again. It's up to the player to know Shun Di's capabilities and know which number of drinks corresponds to which moves he can perform.

 

[Kien]

Well we could have Voice indicators. She could go...

"Uhhh huh!" for every level up. That'd be funny.

 

[NEWB]

Do it.

 

[justadood]

Max level should be "this is fun!"
Maybe when she taunts she repeats her level's thing, as a reminder
Lvl1=Lalalalalala
Lvl2=uh huh!
Lvl3=this is fun

Or something like that.

 

[justadood]

Also the forward throw should get stronger per level: max level she says the current "this is fun"throw, but with a heart effect when she slaps them. Also, I still think the up B should do heart damage, and the taunt should be able to be interrupted by neutral B as an ultra taunt. Maybe Toadette with hearts?

 

[NEWB]

Also, her forward throw should lose the this is fun part at low level.

Does she start at zero or level one?

At level one, the throw is normal, at two she says this is fun, and at three it gains the heart effect.

 

[Pin Clock]

That isn't good enough. In order to know how to counterplay Peach, both players have to at the very minimum consistantly know what level she's at.

Prior to the MAX Beta, if a newcomer wanted to beat Peach, he'd have to know which turnips to worry about the most by looking it up online (I had to do that when I was getting into comp. Melee pre-Brawl days and didn't even know the faces meant anything) or by getting wrecked by Stitchface. There was no indicator that Stitchface was the strongest, until it was made to be the color of a stop sign while the others were lower on a white-red scale. With no easy way to indicate what level she is on, the system is doomed to fall into confusion from both ends.

In addition, this sounds not like a way to make Peach better, but a way to balance and weaken someone who's already fairly balanced and weak. It is counterproductive to a Peach who wants to beat someone up right out of the gate, and forces her to rely on a gimmick to be even remotely decent, which is not good. This sounds like a re-inventing Peach doesn't need. What Peach needs is buffs to almost everything not named fAir.

 

[NEWB]

The problem with peach is how technical she is. Only the AI has and can master her air game. It is so good at the cancels, and there just isn't any human that can compare. Has anyone seen what minus AI peach can do? I see her use freaking bair as an alt fair and it works for some reason, hitting me to the front for some reason and true combing with Nair for an easy kill.

 

[Kien]

That isn't good enough. In order to know how to counterplay Peach, both players have to at the very minimum consistantly know what level she's at.

Prior to the MAX Beta, if a newcomer wanted to beat Peach, he'd have to know which turnips to worry about the most by looking it up online (I had to do that when I was getting into comp. Melee pre-Brawl days and didn't even know the faces meant anything) or by getting wrecked by Stitchface. There was no indicator that Stitchface was the strongest, until it was made to be the color of a stop sign while the others were lower on a white-red scale. With no easy way to indicate what level she is on, the system is doomed to fall into confusion from both ends.

In addition, this sounds not like a way to make Peach better, but a way to balance and weaken someone who's already fairly balanced and weak. It is counterproductive to a Peach who wants to beat someone up right out of the gate, and forces her to rely on a gimmick to be even remotely decent, which is not good. This sounds like a re-inventing Peach doesn't need. What Peach needs is buffs to almost everything not named fAir.

You're looking at it the wrong way. I don't plan on removing anything that Peach currently has. Simply adding to it. Also, I don't think she needs. Lucario's only clear indicator of his level is apparent when he does his techniques. Other than that you can't tell.

 

[justadood]

Actually luc's damage level helps tell when some moves change significantly (85%)... peach could have something similar, or if this is where the change'd be, I'd suggest an "umbrella mode," like ness' s bat mode?

 

[Smilindeth]

What about adding a glow to her?
(Could be on hands, feet, etc.)
Intensity and color could change with level.

As for knowing the moves and such, that's how Minus seems in general.
Half of it you learn on your own, the other half you learn from others on forums or directly, or by paying close attention to patch notes hoping they include everything. I haven't seen a great place that documents the changes yet besides a partially filled blog that stopped progress.

 

[Ferrous Faucet]

As for knowing the moves and such, that's how Minus seems in general.
Half of it you learn on your own, the other half you learn from others on forums or directly, or by paying close attention to patch notes hoping they include everything. I haven't seen a great place that documents the changes yet besides a partially filled blog that stopped progress.

Agreed. I still learn new stuff all the time, even with characters I use a lot. Without a comprehensive list of every little change, the capabilities of each fighter in Brawl Minus are very cryptic.

 

[Bent 00]

Wow, Peach's Dash Attack cancelled into Forward Smash is really good.

Her Forward Smash comes out very fast, hits hard, and can be spammed quickly.

Peach isn't as bad off as I thought...

 

[NEWB]

No she isn't. That and you really have to abuse float cancel.

What if the hearts on her walk could be used as indicators? They can also occur when she starts dashing perhaps?

 

[justadood]

that'd be cool... also every second or two while standing still... ... ...OR she could just flash pink..?