New Ideas for Existing Characters (Including New Ideas for Possible Future Projects)

Discussion in 'Characters' started by justadood, Oct 8, 2015.

  1. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    New page dedicated to only posting ideas for existing characters, be they radical or benign.. post to your hearts' contents, and i'll continually update the list with the new movesets or move/mechanic changes

    To start with:

    One other thought [I have] is for the full cast. In most other fighting games there are grab cancels that allow to thwart and opponent's grab. Most of the time it's just performing a grab at the same time they do to immediately escape the grab. I think it might work well in Minus and help to keep the game flowing fast. (-Momurderer)

    Add a ground pound as a smash down air if possible to allow a quick spike interrupt from tornado without needing to change anything around.
    Make F.L.U.D.D. a taunt instead and moving mario tornado to down B. when fludd taunt is activated:

    changes Up B to an angled, semi-chargeable rocket blast

    when down B is repeatedly pressed, the mario tornado will use hover water to push foes beneath you further, or trip grounded foes

    when side B is pressed, will squirt water again (regular water this time though)

    neutral B can be mapped to over charge instead of needing to recharge

    when water is overcharged, smash inputs will blast the max spammed/charged, or just larger versions of the various B moves to cover more area and blast foes further. (-Dood)


    maybe if he had the FLUDD out and he did his smashes, they also had some water-effects or water-blasting effects (like Squirtle's down-smash) to add some variety and active changing? (-Thanatoast)

    What if Peach's walk-sparkles produced a small pop-up or at least jab-resetting hitbox? Peach combos would look swag as fuck on the ground. (- Valravn)

    Up B= Barrel blast as up B in air, blast pad as Up B on ground

    Down B= Ground Pound as down B in air, Ground slam as Down B on ground, and rainbow coin ground slam if held down and charged

    Holding Neutral B (or holding shield and pressing B)= Barrel grab

    Dash attack= If pressed will barrel roll, if held will "moon-kick-jump"
    Air dodge and spot dodge always does the shrug taunt

    Strong Kong invincibility and infinite barrel blast (up Bs) as New Final smash option if B is tapped rather than held (-Dood)

    instead of taking out the silly-looking ones (because they are fun and silly-looking), instead maybe in the air, instead of simply having his down-B make him a big target, maybe have it a dodge/invincibility frames for a while, so that there is a reason to use it in the air rather than limiting the player from using another attack in the air. I can't think of many characters that are limited from using a special attack while in the air, so why have it only for DK?(- Thanatoast)

    Spring Jump as Up B (all Kongs would use their pad abilities as up B's) instead of jet pack.. still charge to go higher, but arches a lot higher with drift
    side tilt does BBB combo from DK 64: tail whip each direction, then spin for 720* (1 hit, 1 hit, 2 hits)

    Down B in air is ground pound, on ground it's the chargeable rainbow coin ground slam, but not as powerful as DK's, and quicker.. if only tapped, just pats floor with trip hit box on where hands reach

    Side B throws orange-nades instead of wimpy bananas
    Peanut pop-gun fires two to four at a time if repeatedly pressed, each for 4 damage, with horizontal knockback

    Side tilt does BBB combo from DK 64: tail whip each direction, then spin for 720* (1 hit, 1 hit, 2 hits)

    Chimpy charge as new side-smash where charge animation is him spinning his feet along the floor before finally charging into his foes with a headbutt (think wario's side smash)

    Jetpack FS, but with option to shoot multi-directionally with c-stick, and with option to do new Guitar string FS that gets larger and faster the faster you tab B before the strum runs out (-Dood)

    up-b, perhaps make it charge faster or make him fly farther, or reduce how fast he falls when charging that attack. (- Thanatoast)

    how about Sonic getting a dedicated attack at the end of his ground Boost? It could just be a slide animation like when you stop normal dashing but kick up sparks or a windbox or something and maybe be jump or shield cancellable at a certain point. It would slow down in between his Boosts with a purpose instead of just a 'you can't do this for a set amount of time because' type of thing.(-Momurderer)

    if it looked like the sweep slide thing like in sonic games where you have to use the slide to duck and slide under obstacles as you run, it would be a good nod..
    as a matter of fact, it would be cool if it was the drift slide, so you hold it down to slide and let sparks kick up as he turns around, and once you let go, if you drifted the full length without jump cancelling, you'd be able to slingshot and continue the dash in the opposite direction (-Dood)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 12, 2015
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  2. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    None of that has any chance of being implemented. You're still thinking outside the box.

    Instead of new things, try to think of teeny tiny tweaks to existing, problematic things.

    Or, save your time and effort for something else, because very little will change for 4.0.

    Minus is winding down. Only glaring problems with existing material will be addressed.

    ...Or so I suspect is the case, and the devs are just too nice to say so.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2015
  3. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    Bent, chill. Most would view that post as rude and unwarranted. He's free to post whatever he wants in the spirit of creativity. Don't forget that the mod is only coming to an end with the current dev team. Once they are done, someone else can take over, if they can assemble a team.
     
  4. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    dood was obviously irritated that his posts were being ignored without anyone telling him why.

    I felt I should tell it to him him straight, so he would have realistic expectations for Minus.

    I doubt another team will pick up Brawl Minus after the current team is done. Maybe Smash 4 Minus, someday...
     
  5. Momurderer

    Momurderer Bazooka Koopa

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    If the current team is winding things down and have the goal of balancing stuff for tournament play then I'd have to respectfully say that they have a long ways to go yet. Considering most of us aren't master pros at Minus, due to laggy online play and just a lack of players to gauge against and not to insult anyone who thinks they are at a pro level cus I'm sure some of you actually are, there is still a lot that could be uncovered. For example, D3 has almost no landing lag and lack of other lag in some areas. It's been a while since I've played but I do remember as D3 that I could consistently land at least 20 to 30 grabs per game and that's way more than I ever landed with anybody. D3 can act almost instantly out of shield and has other areas where I can't really say what's happening cus I'm nowhere near being a pro but somethings just don't look right and it all works in D3's favor. In close quarters he is a menace and I think it's because of some issues that should be fixed after more testing by other players. D3 as he stands can be seriously abused if someone figured him out. And I still really like D3 regardless, he's my second.

    But this is a thread for new ideas so how about Sonic getting a dedicated attack at the end of his ground Boost? It could just be a slide animation like when you stop normal dashing but kick up sparks or a windbox or something and maybe be jump or shield cancellable at a certain point. It would slow down in between his Boosts with a purpose instead of just a 'you can't do this for a set amount of time because' type of thing.

    EDIT: Also I think a ground pound butt stomp for Mario would fit in alright as a move. He has had it in pretty much every 3D Mario game I can think of.
     
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  6. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    To me he seemed more disappointed and frustrated than irritated, which led to him making this new topic. However, that is not an excuse to jump in and basically tell him to stop posting creative ideas. If you wanna be rude, don't bother hitting the "post reply" button.

    I don't wanna see another post go off-topic here and derail Dood's thread.
     
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  7. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    How is any of what I said rude? It may be blunt, but it's true.

    I assume dood is only sharing these ideas with the hope they will make it into Minus -- if there's no chance of that happening, why should he make the effort of typing them up and posting them? I just don't want anyone to waste his or her time dreaming up changes that will never occur.

    There's no point in thinking up elaborate suggestions if there is no way they will be implemented.

    Anyone who still wants to fantasize about pie in the sky, go ahead -- I'm simply trying to keep your expectations realistic and down-to-earth, so you won't be disappointed if the devs ignore you.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2015
  8. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    What you call blunt was interpreted as rude by me, and I do not like that. Whether or not he thinks it'll get into Minus is irrelevant. This topic was created in order to discuss ideas for characters, of which there is no mention at all of expectations for any of it to be implemented. How do you know it was created with the intent of it potentially getting in? To me it looks like a general ideas topic for the purpose of sharing creative thoughts and discussions for them, so that's a mighty big assumption on your part.

    Again, do not tell people what they should and shouldn't be using their time for. If I myself had ideas to share, I'd be posting them here as well to see if anyone has anything to share on them. Are you going to tell me it's a waste too? Please, Bent, do not give me a reason to infract. I already said I do not want to see this topic get derailed. If you have nothing to add to this topic based on what the creator was looking for, DO NOT POST.
     
  9. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Did you actually read dood's suggestions? None of them would be easy to implement. I figure that a topic for "New Ideas for Existing Characters" in the official Brawl Minus section should limit said ideas to suggestions that can actually happen. Ideas that have no chance of being implemented in Minus do not belong in the official Brawl Minus section; they belong in the Custom Mods section.

    Gold, I would think that you know enough about how our current dev team operates, so you would only post practical, reasonable ideas, that have a real chance of being implemented in official Minus; suggestions which actually belong in a topic like this.

    ...I don't see this argument going anywhere, so let's just drop it here. I said all I wanted to say.
     
  10. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    Don't worry then, i'll fix the title

    EDIT (ten seconds after): Got it :) ^)
     
  11. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    In all seriousness, this thread doesn't necessarily merit to be used. a lot of ideas here will also contradict each other, as certain people's opinions will be different, so of course not everyone's ideas will get used. HOWEVER, i WILL post all ideas we find on the OP so it grows larger. This is simply a place to throw ideas, so you can actually see how far your ideas will go. Maybe they're ideas that some modders/devs will consider in the next patch, maybe it'll inspire an independent modder to make it on a custom mod.

    So as far as this first suggestion goes:
    here's my input: :D
    sounds like something i'd be interested in seeing something done with this.

    I think if it looked like the sweep slide thing like in sonic games where you have to use the slide to duck and slide under obstacles as you run, it would be a good nod..
    as a matter of fact, it would be cool if it was the drift slide, so you hold it down to slide and let sparks kick up as he turns around, and once you let go, if you drifted the full length without jump cancelling, you'd be able to slingshot and continue the dash in the opposite direction
     
  12. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    DDD has a frame 4 grab [or maybe frame 3]. I have NO idea who decided that would be a good idea ever [grabs in Melee are mostly frame 7, in Brawl frame 6, in Smash 4 they vary but of course Sheik, Pikachu, and Fox are all frame 6 (the best startup, cooldown is also varied)], but that could explain why it's easier to grab - it just comes out that much faster. It's also extremely rewarding to grab [high damage and no staling, and at least two of his throws outright kill], so it's a huge incentive with DDD to grab grab grab [maybe make his name ZZZ since that's the button you will often hit the most?].

    I think D3 is a top 5 character, with unbalanced Lucario [right now idk where he is], the new Meta Knight [what the heck is that dair], and probably some others in the mix [dunno about Falco at this point, and Fox is seemingly as solid as ever... there's also Wolf and Olimar... but I wouldn't label anyone in the game as decidedly better than DDD, and there is a definitely a case that he is outright better than certain characters like Bowser].

    Most of these changes look very unrealistic dood, but I'll also say that some of them look really cool!
     
  13. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Which ideas do you think are both cool and realistic?

    The only ones that seem possible to me are...
    It would be nice for DK to have a real aerial Down B, and an alternate Dash Attack might be OK -- but does DK need one? No.
     
  14. Momurderer

    Momurderer Bazooka Koopa

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    I like it. Letting him finish the slide in order to Boost back in the other direction is a great idea. I feel like that could help solve the Boost dancing problem that people don't like.

    One other thought I have is for the full cast. In most other fighting games there are grab cancels that allow to thwart and opponent's grab. Most of the time it's just performing a grab at the same time they do to immediately escape the grab. I think it might work well in Minus and help to keep the game flowing fast.
     
  15. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    That would actually be really cool and a very natural solution to chain grabbing in Smash in general, but unfortunately I'm pretty sure it would be incredibly difficult to code and would require massive balance changes.
     
  16. Thanatoast

    Thanatoast Grim Reaper in Training

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    Does Ganondorf need an OHKO attack that is modular with a fast ranged hitbox/wave? Does Olimar need to have Pikmin that force the player to do a different kind of attack to get the Pikmin off depending on where the Pikmin land (head vs torso vs feet)? Does Wario need to have an additional fart effect/attack with his moves? Does Zelda need to have the option to teleport with her attacks? Not really, but they do anyways because that is what makes Brawl Minus fun. You have characters that have little additions that add flavor to the game and differentiate it from other famous mods of Brawl. It's not always about whether a character needs to have something that benefits.

    THAT BEING SAID, to show I'm not just popping in to beat down folks for no reason, I will bust into some of these suggestions.
    Mario: The problems with giving him a completely different moveset when he has the FLUDD out is that A ) that is really resource-consuming as well as time-consuming in terms of programming and such, and B ) this was tried with Ness back a while ago. When he canceled his baseball bat taunt, he entered into "baseball bat" mode and had different dash, aerial, jab, strong, and smash attacks. It was interesting, to say the least, but no one ever used it. It wasn't satisfying, it didn't change much to the game, and was largely overlooked. There are probably other reasons why it was taken out which I am missing. But maybe if he had the FLUDD out and he did his smashes, they also had some water-effects or water-blasting effects (like Squirtle's down-smash) to add some variety and active changing?
    DK: I don't know what is meant by "rainbow coin" and "moon-kick-jump" (I guessing it's like pushing off someone and flipping backwards?), I do agree that DK doesn't actually need an alternate dash attack because his dash is great as it is. It lets him set up for some pretty good aerial combos, and his dodges out of the dashing makes it unnecessary to have that. I do like that you brought up alternate dodges, but instead of taking out the silly-looking ones (because they are fun and silly-looking), instead maybe in the air, instead of simply having his down-B make him a big target, maybe have it a dodge/invincibility frames for a while, so that there is a reason to use it in the air rather than limiting the player from using another attack in the air. I can't think of many characters that are limited from using a special attack while in the air, so why have it only for DK?
    Diddy Kong: I haven't played much of Diddy Kong this update, but I think the bananas must stay. They are part of his interrupt-based character. You take away his ability to stop folks like Fox and Ike (specifically talking about their Side-B), and the you're left with a pretty neutered character. But speaking of his up-b, perhaps make it charge faster or make him fly farther, or reduce how fast he falls when charging that attack.
    Sonic: Ew. Sonic definitely does not need his Boost to be a dedicated attack. It's an escape move as opposed to a dedicated attack. Maybe keep the sliding animation, but don't have that as an attack. He was already extremely hard to hit in the last update with his original boost, even if it didn't do damage. It let him get around almost every attack freely and set himself up to unleash attacks however he pleased. It was like a bullet hell game, only without the privilege of respawning after one hit and a lot less fun. If you want a throw-back, make it an animation as opposed to an attack.

    It's good to bring up ideas like this because it lets folks hash out ideas. Even when the main mods shut the "official" one down, it's still to talk about this as a community and maybe have little "unofficial patches" released occasionally, as well as address certain issues with ideas and tweak them.
     
  17. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    [​IMG]
    My point was that we should focus on changes that actually need to be made before Minus ends, instead of "just because" ideas.

    I'm gonna quote Glyph here:
    ...and one from Sammi:
    Last of all...
    [​IMG]
     
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  18. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    My ban finger is starting to get itchy.
     
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  19. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    Updated a few things in the OP to accommodate for new ideas..
    Great input you guys :) will try to keep in a chronological order or something..
     
  20. Glyph

    Glyph Moderator

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    Oh my god there is no way

    How long has it been? It has to have been over a year now
     
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  21. Neville

    Neville GG M8s Minus Backroom

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    *Grabs popcorn*

    In all seriousness though, I've been toying with an idea for a while called "What if...? Minus" where people suggest a small change to Minus, such as making a single attack function differently or adding an effect to an attack, people vote on these changes, and then I implement it into a custom build. Then people can vote on whether it stays, goes, or gets tweaked. Unfortunately, I haven't PSA'd in a long time, so it'll take me a couple weeks to get it up and running. From the way I see it though, it would be the definition of a community build, and maybe some of this stuff can be in there.
     
  22. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    Oh, cool! that sounds like the kind of help that would be able to actually get to make these ideas be seen in motion :) obviously some of these changes may take a while longer than others, and to get solid agreements too, but I'm extremely relieved to see that I'm not some psycho for wanting more stuff in here x3
    Also, I'm aware you aren't making any promise yet, so I hope you don't consider yourself obligated for throwing this out here, but thank you all the same for showing your support!
     
  23. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    Btw, these are references to moves from DK's appearance in DK64
    Rainbow coin slam was a move you could unlock for each Kong that would work by charging the attack button and consume a "coconut crystal" once released to unleash an attack where they slam their hands on the ground etc. to produce a shockwave that kills most regular enemies that game instantly, and is able to activate these small patches of dirt in the game that generate a "rainbow coin" once activated (this coin gives 5 coins to all Kongs at once)
    Moon-kick-jump is in reference to DK's running kick jump attack, which sends you a little airborne and allows you to jump while airborne, even if you jumped off a ledge or waited a while. athis attack also even has a hard-to-use but extremely game-breakingly-rewarding glitch that allows you to extend the kick-jumps height so you moon jump extremely high skyward with the kick, and that's without even wasting the jump you can interrupt the kick jump with, so when combined, you can jump a little at the end of the jump in order to grab ledges that the moon jump just barely cant reach
     
  24. Valravn

    Valravn Active Member

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    I also posted this in Kien's thread about 4.0b Peach, but here's a random thought I had:

    What if Peach's walk-sparkles produced a small pop-up or at least jab-resetting hitbox? Peach combos would look swag as fuck on the ground.
     
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  25. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    added it :) ^)
     

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