Minus 4.0BC Tier list

[Farkus]

Hello everyone, since you can now make tier lists for minus on Smash Apps, I decided to make a tier list for 4.0BC using matchup knowledge and tournament placement in 4.0b and then adjusted for the changes in 4.0BC. I hope you guys like it and feel free to comment your opinions on it. Also if you have any questions as to why I placed a character where, feel free to ask.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B38UOQAQovnoSE1fZDFOZktYOGc

 

[Rejnka]

Seems like your first time using the Tier List Maker, but then again that might be my being a /r/SmashTiers shitposter speaking. Don't worry, though, I polished it a little.

 

[BC]

I'm likin the polished list more than the actual one. XD

In all seriousness though, instead of listing off complaints, I mind as well share the list I made. No letters needed, as this version just came out. The differences are noticable, but these are just opinions, right? =3

 

[Neville]

I'm likin the polished list more than the actual one. XD

In all seriousness though, instead of listing off complaints, I mind as well share the list I made. No letters needed, as this version just came out. The differences are noticable, but these are just opinions, right? =3

Peach has results nerd.

 

[BC]

Why do you think she's the top of that tier? She's got like 1 result, because you keep switching to ZSS

 

[Farkus]

You see BC your tier list is good, but some of the characters got mixed up.

 

[Dusk]

When GnW has no results but he won a tourney :thinking:

 

[BC]

A tourney I probably forgot to watch... oh well. The list is still in proper order, since it was a previous patch's G&W that won a tourney, not the current one.

 

[Dusk]

It was 4.0B's first netplay tourney the only tourney I won Also DK won a tourney

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Why does everyone say Roy is low tier?

 

[BC]

Alright, alright... that system for the tier list was pretty shit. Here's a better one. =P

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Alright, alright... that system for the tier list was pretty shit. Here's a better one. =P

Is Link really bottom tier?

 

[BC]

No one really plays him(except maybe Thor), and his options are pretty meh. It's just my opinion, dude.

 

[Thor]

No one really plays him(except maybe Thor), and his options are pretty meh. It's just my opinion, dude.

Link was better than Ganondorf in my opinion in 4.0B, but IDK how much item throw strength nerfs him [I really doubt it does].

I play him mostly due to my PM/Melee Link, and his aerial landing lag feels a little high for me, but I think he'd fit well where Sheik is [not much higher], and I think Sheik is B tier [now that her recovery is fixed].

I should probably find this tier list maker and make one once I've tried out the revamped cast and thought some [so apparently Mewtwo is busted?]

 

[Farkus]

Alright, alright... that system for the tier list was pretty shit. Here's a better one. =P

You put Ganon and Ivy too high. And Mewtwo is too low.

And Roy is low because he has poor approach options, poor recovery, and poor defense options. He can get kills if he can get an opening, but he gets killed easily as well, and he can't win in neutral most of the time.

 

[Dusk]

AHHH YEAH I play ness and roy "bottom tier" hero baby

 

[?0123456789?]

My 4.0bc tier list (names listed alphabetically in each tier)

S Tier: King Dedede, Lucario

A+ Tier: Donkey Kong, Falco, Fox, Jigglypuff, Link, Meta Knight, Olimar, Pit, Sonic, Toon Link, Zelda

A Tier: Bowser, Captain Falcon, Charizard, Diddy Kong, Ganondorf, Ivysaur, Kirby, Luigi, Mario, Marth, Mewtwo, Mr. Game & Watch, Peach, Pichu, Pikachu, ROB, Samus, Sheik, Squirtle, Wario, Wolf, Zero Suit Samus

B+ Tier: Ice Climbers, Ike, Lucas, Ness, Snake, Roy, Waluigi, Yoshi

 

[BC]

You put Ganon and Ivy too high. And Mewtwo is too low.

And Roy is low because he has poor approach options, poor recovery, and poor defense options. He can get kills if he can get an opening, but he gets killed easily as well, and he can't win in neutral most of the time.

I put Ganon literally 6th from the bottom... How is that too high??

If anything, Ivysaur is the top of A tier, if she's not S. I have no reason to change my opinion on her.

And I put Mewtwo where I did because it wouldbe unfair to just slap him in the high tiers less than a week after his release. Until someone shows how amazing he is, putting him in the B tiers is completely fair.

 

[Farkus]

I put Ganon literally 6th from the bottom... How is that too high??

If anything, Ivysaur is the top of A tier, if she's not S. I have no reason to change my opinion on her.

And I put Mewtwo where I did because it wouldbe unfair to just slap him in the high tiers less than a week after his release. Until someone shows how amazing he is, putting him in the B tiers is completely fair.

Anything higher than last place is too high for Ganon, Ivysaur has had no results, and has lower zoning and approaching potential than most characters. Mewtwo may not have the same tournament showing, but has amazing approach and defensive options, great juggle game, great kill power, great range. His only weakness is his weight.

 

[Neville]

Also BC Ness is actually pretty good from what I recall playing Dusk and now he isn't so easy to gimp.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Mewtwo... him

Did you just assume Mewtwo's gender?

EDIT: Why can't I like my own posts ;-;

 

[BC]

Anything higher than last place is too high for Ganon, Ivysaur has had no results, and has lower zoning and approaching potential than most characters. Mewtwo may not have the same tournament showing, but has amazing approach and defensive options, great juggle game, great kill power, great range. His only weakness is his weight.

Seriously? Ganon's not that bad. He's got great neutral options, thanks to the fall speed/jump speed changes, and his recovery's pretty decent. Amazing kill power, some decent combos... What makes him so horrible to you?

The results argument isn't exactly valid, since there hasn't been a 4.0BC tourney yet, and the fact that there's barely anyone that plays Ivysaur to begin with. She's changed a lot for the better, it's just no one realizes her true potential yet.

*sigh* Mewtwo's okay... His options aren't the best. His tilts, and maybe Nair and Bair make up his neutral game. His teleports are amazing, I'll admit, but that's about it. His best kill options are either unreliable(Smash attacks), lack range(Fair, Side B), or can be meteor cancelled(Dair). He's just an okay character.

 

[Farkus]

Seriously? Ganon's not that bad. He's got great neutral options, thanks to the fall speed/jump speed changes, and his recovery's pretty decent. Amazing kill power, some decent combos... What makes him so horrible to you?

The results argument isn't exactly valid, since there hasn't been a 4.0BC tourney yet, and the fact that there's barely anyone that plays Ivysaur to begin with. She's changed a lot for the better, it's just no one realizes her true potential yet.

*sigh* Mewtwo's okay... His options aren't the best. His tilts, and maybe Nair and Bair make up his neutral game. His teleports are amazing, I'll admit, but that's about it. His best kill options are either unreliable(Smash attacks), lack range(Fair, Side B), or can be meteor cancelled(Dair). He's just an okay character.

You are also forgetting Mewtwo's up air which is God-tier. It has massive range, speed, and priority. It can combo into itself and is a kill move. It is so amazing of a move, I actually see it getting nerfed pretty quickly(sadly). There are few characters I would actually consider at killing than Mewtwo.

Also, yes, it is based off of tournament results from 4.0b, but I did make adjustments based off of the changelog.

 

[Brawl Minus VS]

I guess I'll join in the conversation.

Ganondorf isn't a great character by any stretch, but that doesn't mean he isn't bad. He has a very simple to use 0 to 75% combo on any weight character, plenty of spikes / meteors, and the gandoken is well... the gandoken. That being said, he's slow and heavy, relying on either reads, wide-range / AoE attacks (F-smash, Gandoken), or the speed and combo potential of a short-hopped Flame Choke or Wizard Kick. Again, I'm not saying he's great, but with the power he contains, he's not horrible.

I'm going to have to agree with BC that Ivysaur is actually a pretty good character. After playing with her for a couple of days, I realized the spacing potential that she has, and the wide variety of moves with which she can space. F-air, B-air, F-tilt, D-tilt, D-smash, and Side-B are all excellent ways to keep your opponents at bay, while Up-smash and D-air provide combo setups and kill options depending on where you land them. Granted, I've never been a huge fan of tether-based Up-B users, but Ivysaur kinda makes up for that by having a great horizontal recovery game with her Neutral-B, as well as the fact that her edge-guarding was insane with her arial Down-B, Leaf Storm (despite the helplessness afterwards). And yes, I'm aware it's been changed to Giga Drain. So, to conclude, I'd certainly put her as a high-tier character.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten the chance to play much with Mewtwo so I can't make any real comments, but based on the character video that we saw, I feel that Mewtwo, like Lucario, is going to be a high-tier character as well, potentially S-tier if the results show it.

 

[Dusk]

Am I the only one who thinks that Roy is A+ - A for his absurd neutral and his ability to stuff a bunch of approaching options due to being a swordie. Also he has insane aerial mobility because of side B the only think you have to learn to do is save your jumps so avoid djs for the most part so you could use your jump offstage to not have such a wonkie side b.

Edit: Also didn't point out with the ability to buffer dash out of an aerial it gives him a little extra oomph in terms of mobility