Marth could benefit from counter-sliding.

[Bashdemears]

Basically, I think his counter shouldn't kill any momentum he has gained. Instead he should keep some of it and slide a bit. Not off ledges (duh)

 

[Thor]

If you refer to strictly horizontal momentum this would be kind of cool I guess, but I know some use it as an "air brake" going up and down - it's not highly effective in my opinion but if you want the ledge and forsee an attack you can counter above ledge height, not forcing the AD, possibly getting a counter, or else able to Dolphin Slash after the animation is done.

No idea about how it actually affects Marth's overall strengths and if this would add more than I'd think...

 

[Gold_TSG]

IMO it doesn't benefit him at all, as he doesn't need to rely on counter. He already has weird physics on it now when used in the air, and as a serious Marth main, I honestly can't see him needing any sliding around with it. That's more Ike's thing with his Quick Draw.

 

[NEWB]

In the right hands, Marth is almost op. This change doesn't really affect his play that much though, so I'm not sure. He's the guy in most need of buffs, but whatever.

 

[Other Aether]

In the right hands, Marth is almost op. This change doesn't really affect his play that much though, so I'm not sure. He's the guy in most need of buffs, but whatever.

You have to be careful not to confuse 'dangerous' and 'op'. Dangerous is is Melee Jigglypuff, who can kill you before you can blink. I think that kind of applies to Marth, too. OP is vBrawl Metaknight, who is impossible to outright counter.

 

[Bashdemears]

I mean canceling the dash with the counter. He should only slide as he would if you just let go of the control stick. And stop all momentum as soon as he countered something.

As a marth main often times I see myself approaching from the air (especially against reflector happy Falcos) which is predictable as tits.

Marth is mobile as heck in the air so this isn't to get around walls of projectiles. He has an easy time with that. Its mainly an approach / mixup thing for one of the more predictable characters in minus.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I dunno. If these chars are so predictable, would it even matter?

 

[Bashdemears]

You see marth dashing at you for an attack. What is he gonna do?

1.Dash attack
2.Short hop fair
3.Short hop dair.

All those options have roughly the same spacing. Though Ive seen lots of minus marths just run up and grab. Given it was always on the other guys endlag.

So the idea is to slighty alter the "marth stays THAT far away from me." line of thinking. Allowing marth another option than just staying around tipper spacing.(Which either works for or against you.) This would let him be a little more ballsy if need be.

 

[Gold_TSG]

You forgot grabbing. And using shield breaker. And fsmashing. He has way more options than you think if all you're using is him dashing at the opponent.

 

[Bashdemears]

I mentioned Grabs. And okay lets add fsmashing. Still same spacing that either gets you #rekt or works great in your favor. Give or take some marth width if you angle it. Oh wait it doesn't matter if you angle it because OF COURSE you're gonna angle it if you're too close/ too far.

I dont think I've ever been hit by sheild breaker in a local match. "Oh hes w far away and he charged it x much so he will be y close to me. Ill just doge through it/ I'll just dash back a bit/ ill just jump over." SB in the air is better but there's still always that "hes gonna cancel to fair or nair." Im not sure if that means I know marth pretty well or if my friends suck.

I do have this weird habit of canceling SB into bair. As some sort of aireal foxtroting. Moot point

Im talking about dash canceling into a counter that slides a maybe 2 (three at most) marth widths.

To clarify, he would still "air brake" with the counter.

Edit: Also, if he doesn't need to rely on counters, then whats wrong with making one of his least used moves more viable?

 

[NEWB]

Is it you that mains him or your friends? It sounds like they just suck. Have you played against any of our Marth mains here? You would see that he isn't that bad. Aside from a probable mismatch against falco, his aerials eat through most projectiles. You do have a point about him not really using counter much, but it has it's uses. Some moves just aren't made to be used often, and their kit ensures they don't need to.

Sliding a counter on the ground isn't good either. On whiff, his counter is very punishable, and doing a sliding counter is also very predictable.

 

[Gold_TSG]

www.YouTube.com/watch?v=n4FUI3K0ieo

Feels like this is necessary at this rate.

 

[Bashdemears]

In my opinion online brawl is almost a different game because of button lag. I find it very hard to play my best. I have yet to try the new servers which I hear are almost local- like. Waiting on hackless.

You both make good points but Im still not swayed. All I see is benefit I don't see anything about this that harms Marth and makes him worse. If I could I would add it myself.

Maybe I see more potential for this than there is. Those situations where you need to get THAT close because they out space you or is a dorf that loves utilt. Mosey on in with that slide while they're about to release that reflector or do the Wolf snapback.

Maybe its just my playstyle that really gets anything from it As I only use SB to chase off the stage or if I know they'll try to sheild it. Which will lead to more aggro metagames because they don't want to sheild much else.

I won't bother defending my friends as only two are really great minus players. Most notable is Tom who can play with one hand and has top world records in mariokart pokemon. Tom has shown mastery over every character so I wanna start using him more to collect replays for Glyph. Brandon who mains falco and plays alot like Thor actually but more adaptive. Not to say thor isn't but this guy is just More.


Though I must ask, what buffs would you guys add instead?

 

[Gold_TSG]

That particular online match was actually lagless.

And the reason I feel it doesn't benefit him is, all you need is for someone to predict it, and you're basically throwing yourself at them and screaming "GRAB ME, YOU FOOL!" I prefer emergency break, myself.

 

[NEWB]

I don't think marth needs buffs. He is one of the characters that is pretty much perfect and only needs to be buffed or debuffed as the rest of the cast changes.

I would support trying to throw in things from his games though. But those changes need to not buff him much.

 

[Bashdemears]

That particular online match was actually lagless.

And the reason I feel it doesn't benefit him is, all you need is for someone to predict it, and you're basically throwing yourself at them and screaming "GRAB ME, YOU FOOL!" I prefer emergency break, myself.

Good point. I feel that makes it more rewarding to just slide straight into an attack you see comming. I guess that's the difference in our styles.

 

[Gold_TSG]

There are just better options than running in to counter, is all I'm saying. Not to mention, the counter frames don't last long enough to actually take advantage of a slide, so you'd be open for a clean smash as well.