Got some melee guys into Minus here's what we found.

B

Bashdemears

Jiggs2stronk
Last weekend I got a local SSBM group into minus. To give you an idea of their skill, one of our best players made 58th at evo (which is hard.) The other is *unofficially* the best in the region. Beats PPU and all the other ranked players up and down the street. They loved the idea of auto L cancel.

Will provide replays soon.

Few things we thought about minus at high levels:

1) Zelda is godly. How? Have good spacing. Don't approach. She has some of the best shield pressure as she can still teleport if it hits shield and then can do whatever. It became impossible to approach a SHFFing Zelda. Also has a two to three hit Zero-death on every character. (JUST SAYIN.) Welcome to camp Zelda where all you need is fair, bair, dtilt, and fsmash.

2) Roy needs better recovery. nuff said. (Well Minus has a very offstage nature and Roy's recovery is no.) It's also very hard to combo even with being able to JC his Fair.

3)Pichu needs NSM

4) G&W deserves to be higher.

5) Nobody could make sonic good.

6) Nobody could make Samus good.

7) Bowser's RR isn't too stronk but its really stronk for the KO potential it has.

8) SDI helps but not enough

9) Though we know it was intentional, its really odd yet good how marth can move in the air like vBrawl Wario

10)Rob is not OP

11)Nobody could make Wario good.

12) Dash dancing is always better than running


Wish I had replays on me right now. Will upload in the weekend.




EDIT: Can a mod move this to the minus general disscusion?
 
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NEWB

NEWB

Well-Known Member
Well, we can't and shouldn't make all these changes based what abunch of melee players think, despite their skill.

Samus, pichu, and Roy are getting edited.

I can't believe wario is bad.

I agree game and watch needs some help.

Sonic plays a baiting game. For this reason,meh wouldn't place too high on tier lists, but doesn't mean he is bad.

Zelda they could easily fix, since we can all see zelda being godly. If she really is, the devs could probably make some or all of here moves not teleport to shields.

Don't know how you can possibly prove rob isn't OP. So we are on the same page, it isn't that he is even too strong. He has few mismatches and too many powerful tools. I think that was the general consensus.
 
B

Bashdemears

Jiggs2stronk
Well we don't really know what characters are good or bad until someone with lots of "1337 reap tech skull" gets their hands on the game. These guys moved G&W, Pichu, and Zelda very high on my teir list.

We thought that the distant hitboxes should have higher damnage output but very low knockback. Close range hitboxes should do the opposite. where they have high knockback and low damnage.
 
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NEWB

NEWB

Well-Known Member
You mean on final hits, right? Zelda has a problem with people DIing out her many multi hit moves.

Making her distant hitboxes have low knockback and high damage..... that sounds interesting.
 
The Concept

The Concept

Philosopher & Assassin
Never underestimate a good Sonic. He takes practice to play well. He's not a "pick-up-and-dominate" character.
I also would like a more minus like Game & Watch, but I'm practicing with what we have.
Does this mean you found your wii, Bash?
 
Gold_TSG

Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
Samus is a ton more dangerous than people give her credit for. Ask anyone that has played mine.
 
Doqtor Kirby

Doqtor Kirby

Resident Design Nitpicker
Minus Backroom
Are you aware that this is in Zeus boards?
 
B

Bashdemears

Jiggs2stronk
Minus. I edited the OP to ask for a thread move.

The Concept said:
Never underestimate a good Sonic. He takes practice to play well. He's not a "pick-up-and-dominate" character.
I also would like a more minus like Game & Watch, but I'm practicing with what we have.
Does this mean you found your wii, Bash?
Click to expand...

They spent about a week with it so far. Pick-up and play matters not when you spent the last decade mastering frame-perfect gameplay. After looking through the changelist on each character, they (IMO) had a very good understanding of everyone that was played.

A few commenting on Jigglypuff saying that things SHOULD combo into rest but only at percent certain percent's. Things like uair, uthrow, dair, utilt ect. should only combo into rest somewhere around 30-50% after that, jiggs should rely on usmash, WOP, and fsmash for KOs. I'm with glyph on this as things need to combo into rest as rest is very hard to land as is.
 
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NEWB

NEWB

Well-Known Member
Why would Jiggs want to rest? If it doesn't kill, then they can come back and smash Jiggs, so I disagree. If you want it to kill easier, it shouldn't when pulling off sing almost guarantees rest especially if they are at killable percents. If you need help landing sing its easy with up taunt, as there is a cancel window as soon as gravity comes out.

........

Gravity is up taunt, right?
 
NEWB

NEWB

Well-Known Member
The onky rest kill combo I know of is with rollout. I wouldn't be opposed to another true kill combo if it can manage to be that precise.
 
The Concept

The Concept

Philosopher & Assassin
Triple Pound Rest KO. I think Bash has seen me do it once. Or it may have been someone else.
Bash, I though the guaranteed KO for rest started at 50%?
 
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