dair silliness.

[Bashdemears]

So I just got KOed by Ike's dair.

Let me tell you why it doesn't make sense.

>So im jigs playing darx. Last stocks.
>Both over 100%.
>Close game.
>Im close to the magnifying glass in the upper left corner of Yoshis island. (The vbrawl one.)
>Ike jumps from the stage to try and go for a spike.
>'Tis cool I see it comming.
>I weave back towards blast zone.
>Ike dairs.
>THE SWORD HAS BEN SWUNG AND IKE IS STARTING TO BRING IT BACK UP.
>I space a fair so that I'd hit Ike's torso/kneecap. (They are in the same area when he dairs)
>I get sent straight up into star K.O.

So Ike's dair has hitboxes that last into some frames of endlag. Not only that but these hitboxes are nowhere near the sword or the actual range of attack. Why? Its ridiculous and not in a good minusy way. Its stupid.

 

[Bent 00]

Did you happen to save a replay?

 

[Darxmarx]

No. We didn't save it. Sorry.
The point he's making is the sword trace disappeared during endlag, yet it somehow hit on the sides of Ike. Now that I think about it, this hitbox might have been the same in vBrawl. Still kind of ridiculous, though.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I highly doubt the box was changed from vbrawl

 

[Darxmarx]

That's what I was thinking. I just wasn't sure because I didn't play Ike enough in vBrawl to remember...

 

[Bashdemears]

I was too salty (for good reason) to save a replay. vBrawl or not, its stupid.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Just how the lingering hit box works on him. I mained him pretty hard in vbrawl .

 

[NEWB]

I still want to see this though. There really shouldn't be lingering hitboxes on his sides of all places.

 

[Gold_TSG]

It's more or less to act like a sex kick, though his I suppose is still pretty strong. It would be a big nerf to his only meteor if the boxes were shrunk, as his sword doesn't cover much area at all.

 

[NEWB]

That is also true.... Maybe he can get a cooler dair?

 

[Bent 00]

I say leave it alone. Plenty of other characters have bigger-than-expected hitboxes that make even less sense.

Marth's Up Smash and Peach's Dash Attack, for instance.

I don't want to see any more Minus moves that are weaker than their vBrawl counterparts...

 

[Thor]

I don't want to see any more Minus moves that are weaker than their vBrawl counterparts...

We need to revert MK bthrow [, dsmash, and shuttle loop]?

I'm on board for that!

Just kidding. [Though I think they are weaker than vBrawl counterparts. I know bthrow does less damage and the extra knockback is rarely useful, if ever. I would like seeing it hit for like at least 7%, but I know that likely won't happen.]

 

[Bashdemears]

What kind of sex kick hits after you stopped kicking? I'm just upset about the whole endlag thing. The attack was over with. That may be salt talking though.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Unless he was completely and totally out of the attack animation, then the lingering box lasted up until he starts pulling the sword back up. I main Ike, and his dair has just always been like that.

 

[Tybis]

It's more or less to act like a sex kick, though his I suppose is still pretty strong. It would be a big nerf to his only meteor if the boxes were shrunk, as his sword doesn't cover much area at all.

There's two main hits of that attack from what I understand; the initial hitbox sends DOWN pretty strongly, the lingering hitbox sends upwards and lasts most of the rest of the animation.

So it'd be possible to have upwards hit's hitboxes be altered while keeping the meteor the same, in theory.

Though IMO Ike's Dair doesn't warrant any rebalancing.

 

[Gold_TSG]

There really isn't anything wrong with it, balance-wise

 

[Kien]

I guess this is kind of old, but as much as I want to, everyone is against cleaning up Vbrawl's mistakes. Whether they're hitboxes that linger for too long, are spaced way too far away, or simply shouldn't be there in the first place. I don't like to praise Project M but they worked on cleaning hitboxes from what I can tell and while the game is far from balanced, you can at least see what you get hit by when it happens.

 

[NEWB]

How come they are able to do that but we can't? Is part of that reason because they've made changes to the movesets and play styles that compliment such edits?

 

[Kien]

We can, but people seem to think that fixing hitboxes to be reasonable and fair wouldn't be what Minus stands for. Particularly Pin and Nate believe that making something worse than Vbrawl is never a good option but I disagree.

 

[Bent 00]

They did make an exception for Falcon's Up Smash...

 

[Lucis Perficio]

I like Ike's dair as is. It's good for mindgames and makes it much more viable, considering it requires quite a bit of precision to land the meteor portion of the attack, and if it misses, one can always drift slightly in one direction and hit with the flub.

From what I've seen of the attack, he strikes downward past himself, so perhaps that second hit his him pulling the sword backwards, in which case it makes sense. Also, the hitboxes are placed near the tip of the sword, they're really not that hard to read imo. Just don't let the sword overlap with you when you see that it's out.

It sounds like an extremely unlikely situation, the one you were in, in which the move killed you, regardless.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Strike three