4.0b Sheik. In the mind of a Ninja

[Kien]

A ninja must have powerful tools. Paralyzing chains, exploding needles, invincibility frames... etc etc. A terror in the right hands for sure, and potentially near the top if used perfectly I'd imagine. How is she? Does anything need toning down? Bringing up? I feel like she's fine for the most part, but maybe I've missed some things.

 

[Turk Injaydii]

A ninja must have powerful tools. Paralyzing chains, exploding needles, invincibility frames... etc etc. A terror in the right hands for sure, and potentially near the top if used perfectly I'd imagine. How is she? Does anything need toning down? Bringing up? I feel like she's fine for the most part, but maybe I've missed some things.

I think yall did a FANTASTIC job with Sheik. Kudos for making a laughable move like the chain useful and awesome. Literally my only complaint is the fact that you can't save partially charged needles and finish the charge later. Any reason why this change was made? The traditional mechanics of needle charge are much better, imo.

 

[Kien]

I didn't even know that was a thing...

 

[Turk Injaydii]

I didn't even know that was a thing...

Yeah. In most Smash games, you press then release special then she begins charging. If you shield or dodge, she'll stop charging and save the charge. If you press special again, she'll throw needles.

But for Minus, you have to press and hold special to charge and she'll throw needles if you release. Only time she can hold a charge is when she charges all the way. It's definitely weird and i dont understand why it was changed. Hope y'all give her back traditional needle charge in 4.0f.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

1) Melee DThrow, but no chaingrab (maybe WDSK would work?)
2) Make her jumps go a bit higher
3) Melee DAir PLEASE
4) Not a real suggestion, but what the hell does FSmash do?
5) Give her the "jump" at the begining of Vanish again plz
6) Fix Fox's Shine
7) Buff MK

Other than that, I think Shiek is fine. Nice job!

 

[player_03]

Only time she can hold a charge is when she charges all the way.

You can shield while charging, which stores the charge.

3) Melee DAir PLEASE

I kind of like this one. Once it hits, you can jump-cancel it. Since it pops your opponent up, you can (at the right percent) jump towards them and continue your combo.

5) Give her the "jump" at the begining of Vanish again plz

The jump is a bit less obvious if you were falling beforehand, but it's definitely still there.

 

[Thor]

Yeah you can *definitely* store needles. Honestly, Minus needles are in my opinion the best-made input-wise. Some players might dislike that they auto-store because you then can only needle-turnaround [an AT used in Melee to make run-off DJ turnaround bair a thing] when you don't have full needles, but I don't go for that stuff so it works well for me.

1) Melee DThrow, but no chaingrab (maybe WDSK would work?)
2) Make her jumps go a bit higher
3) Melee DAir PLEASE
4) Not a real suggestion, but what the hell does FSmash do?
5) Give her the "jump" at the begining of Vanish again plz
6) Fix Fox's Shine
7) Buff MK

Other than that, I think Shiek is fine. Nice job!

Her fthrow and dthrow are already really good and I believe uthrow combos into vanish because of a JC. She really doesn't need throw buffs [not compared to the rest of the cast].

Her jumps were nerfed previously because they sent her too high lel. It was really busted IIRC.

Her current dair is jump-cancellable after a certain time and maybe also on hit? It's useful as is.

Fsmash is a KO move.

MK doesn't need buffs >_> He's already really really dumb. Either reverting him and going from there or some nerfs are in order frankly.

 

[player_03]

Her current dair is jump-cancellable after a certain time and maybe also on hit? It's useful as is.

Yep. After a certain amount of time, you can either jump-cancel or cancel into an aerial. On hit, you can jump-cancel.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

Yeah you can *definitely* store needles. Honestly, Minus needles are in my opinion the best-made input-wise. Some players might dislike that they auto-store because you then can only needle-turnaround [an AT used in Melee to make run-off DJ turnaround bair a thing] when you don't have full needles, but I don't go for that stuff so it works well for me.



Her fthrow and dthrow are already really good and I believe uthrow combos into vanish because of a JC. She really doesn't need throw buffs [not compared to the rest of the cast].

Her jumps were nerfed previously because they sent her too high lel. It was really busted IIRC.

Her current dair is jump-cancellable after a certain time and maybe also on hit? It's useful as is.

Fsmash is a KO move.

MK doesn't need buffs >_> He's already really really dumb. Either reverting him and going from there or some nerfs are in order frankly.

After playing her more, I found out most of these things.



I still want instant kill DC for MK tho...

 

[Thor]

After playing her more, I found out most of these things.



I still want instant kill DC for MK tho...

You can chain dairs off the bottom as Meta Knight.

Also if I'm reading that right, that would have to be a supertaunt or else a tremendous nerf to dimensional cape based on how things are balanced... at BEST they could make it a meteor smash as a potential OHKO, but that move OHKOing is nonsense.

 

[Kymaera K1ng]

You can chain dairs off the bottom as Meta Knight.

Also if I'm reading that right, that would have to be a supertaunt or else a tremendous nerf to dimensional cape based on how things are balanced... at BEST they could make it a meteor smash as a potential OHKO, but that move OHKOing is nonsense.

you miss my point. I don't WANT it to be balanced

 

[Thor]

you miss my point. I don't WANT it to be balanced

If unbalanced OHKOs were allowed, Warlock Punch would not only have a cancel, you could float in any direction you wanted during startup.

But we don't get the latter [duh], and we don't even get the former. If you want something grossly imbalanced, you'll have to mod it yourself [and I suspect an OHKO on the cape would get dull quickly...]