4.0b Peach. Is this what you wanted?

[Kien]

There were many complaints about Peach being too weak in previous builds of Minus. We didn't have many Peach players that I'm aware of other than myself, so I tried not to overdo it. In increasing the power curve for Minus, I feel like Peach is in a very good spot now. Probably not as broken as Squirtle or Dedede, but she's definitely a contender.

Opinions?

 

[Valravn]

To be clear, are you talking about the version that's currently in 4.0b? I dabble a bit in Peach and I think she's pretty solid at the moment. I haven't run into any matchups that seem very skewed though there are a few characters that don't have easy solutions to Float. (Or they have to change up their game a bit.) Bowser should almost never grab you with Royal Rampage, for instance. Any matchups where she gets out-disjointed, she has turnips to fall back on. Probably the most annoying matchup for me is Toon Link, since he can put arrows all over any low platforms and force you into some really weird paths around the stage.

Random thought, what if peach's walk-sparkles had a weak hitbox that could jab reset, or potentially a minor pop-up? I don't even know what that would be useful for yet, but it'd be hilarious.

Spoiler

DID

HE

JUST

SKIP

UP

SLOWLY

AND

FORWARD

SMASH?

 

[Kien]

Pop up sparkles would be the most OP thing ever. Not really, but it would make her nearly impossible to fight due to having a 0 lag hitbox.

 

[Mawootad]

Not even that, just by spamming walk start and stopping you'd have guaranteed shield break/shield poke every time you walked into someone who was shielding.

 

[Valravn]

Hmm, I wonder if there's a way to only enter endlag if the hitbox connects with something.

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

Gonna be brutally honest.
The single most drastic change in a single matchup from 3.Q to 4.0b: Peach/Marth.
Easily from +2 for Marth to +2 for Peach.

 

[Valravn]

Out of curiosity, why's that? I don't play Marth much, and my roommate only picked him up in 4.0b.

 

[Neville]

This is still a bad MU for Peach. Doqk just thinks it's bad since I freshman 5stocked him in a game.

 

[Valravn]

I can guess why, with Marth's sweeping hitboxes and relative immunity to the turnip game most of the time, but what makes you think that specifically? I don't know much about the matchup outside of Melee.

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

mmh
It's not necessarily that Peach became too good because of her buffs, it was the hitstun change that made Marth bad.

 

[Neville]

If Marth can keep Peach above him he wins. Peach hates being above her opponents, and it's really easy for Marth to do that.

 

[Thor]

Peach still gets destroyed by Link. Link needs a nerf or Peach Bomber needs to go through projectiles or something [Toad isn't enough because lol boomerang dragging hitbox and arrow -> bomb or vice versa].

Also probably rekt by MK [I know Tornado cancelling is seemingly not a thing, but dair seems like it could be brutal for Peach to recover from at even low percents] and Falco [slow lasers are awesome and I think they could be balanced around, but just throwing them back on in taunt mode wasn't the best idea... tbh owo's idea to remove them was healthy for the game overall, even if it personally made Falco less fun... something Glyph never admitted about ROB lollollol. But yeah pretty sure slow lasers hurt her badly, and regular lasers are bad enough... never mind Falco fair offstage].

Changes are helpful to make her better overall, but I dunno if they made her good or merely "better except vs some really really awful MUs where she still struggles mightily".

 

[Neville]

Changes are helpful to make her better overall, but I dunno if they made her good or merely "better except vs some really really awful MUs where she still struggles mightily".

This is basically Peach's MU chart. The changes did help with Link a bit because her meteor dair can gimp him hard, and her newer stuff helps against TL too.

 

[Valravn]

...just by spamming walk start and stopping you'd have guaranteed shield break/shield poke every time you walked into someone who was shielding.

I'm still learning enough PSA to actually do this, but I went and tried out some Peach stuff last night. I learned a couple important things:

1. Peach's skip effect doesn't occur if she's moving too slowly
2. Starting too quickly will cause a dash, naturally.
3. It is possible (though very difficult!) to switch between the skipping and non-skipping walkcycles.
4. It is possible to achieve a greater than natural frequency of skips by subtly adjusting your walk speed.

I haven't been able to multiskip (that's what I'm calling it!) back and forth so far, only in one direction. I still have to figure out how/where to add a hitbox, but I think if I give it very little/no disjoint, it should be fine. Just have to make sure it doesn't automatically combo into itself.

 

[Neville]

I'm still learning enough PSA to actually do this, but I went and tried out some Peach stuff last night. I learned a couple important things:

1. Peach's skip effect doesn't occur if she's moving too slowly
2. Starting too quickly will cause a dash, naturally.
3. It is possible (though very difficult!) to switch between the skipping and non-skipping walkcycles.
4. It is possible to achieve a greater than natural frequency of skips by subtly adjusting your walk speed.

I haven't been able to multiskip (that's what I'm calling it!) back and forth so far, only in one direction. I still have to figure out how/where to add a hitbox, but I think if I give it very little/no disjoint, it should be fine. Just have to make sure it doesn't automatically combo into itself.

If the point is to destroy TL's arrows, wouldn't no knockback work? Also, just a reminder Peach pulling Franklin Badges can also be a change(although I think it's kinda unnecessary).

 

[Valravn]

Eh, I was mostly hoping to introduce some swag skipping combos. I'll admit, I hadn't even thought about that. That'd be good though!

 

[Thor]

Eh, I was mostly hoping to introduce some swag skipping combos. I'll admit, I hadn't even thought about that. That'd be good though!

This randomness could also help with the Link MU a tiny bit...

 

[Lucis Perficio]

I like the idea of Peach Bomber having some knockback or damage-based armor. Most likely knockback to deal with Link's boomerang and weaker projectiles more specifically while still allowing it to be overpowered.

 

[Neville]

Yeah Peach has awful, atrocious MUs against the Links, but I don't think she needs buffs to deal with it. I just picked up a secondary who can deal with Link and Toon Link(ZSS. who can down B cancel into a spin that destroys all their projectiles). If Peach could deal with that stuff, she'd be Lucario II: Peach Flavoured This Time., since she would have a couple 40-60 matchups, and destroy the rest of the cast.

 

[Valravn]

I do think having 1-10 secondary characters is a pretty viable solution. But as soon as I figure out this PSA shindig, I might be able to skip through boomerangs like a terminator. Well, if the boomerang is near the ground.

 

[St. Lime]

Hi hi. I'm maining Peach in this game as I main her in Smash 4 (I'm new here lol)

I must say right off the bat. 4.0b Peach is EVERYTHING I EVER DREAMED OF. She has very very strong kill setups and guaranteed combos that do crazy percent due to high hitstun. The float canceling is superb in every way and side B and dash canceling really appeal to me.
I do have to agree that sword characters are not her forte. I also think the Links and Lucario MUs are terrible as of now and maybe her worst MUs due to projectiles keeping her off the stage and possibly gimping her.
However, like in Smash 4, I notice her aerials can cancel out a lot of projectiles (like Ness's PK Thunder). (Thor touched on this) Instead of buffing her like giving her armor and stuff, why not have it to where either 1. Peach Bomber has more hitbox priority over some projectiles, or 2. Give her aerials higher priority. For example, playing a Lvl 9 Lucario. The CPU likes to spam Aura Sphere a lot while I'm offstage, so I end up approaching from below. I learned her Peach Bomber doesn't clank or cancel an uncharged Aura Sphere, and I can't get close enough where Toad is reliable after canceling Side B's animation, still keeping me offstage. So yes. I suggest giving either Peach Bomber or her aerials higher priority, at least against weaker projectiles like an uncharged Aura Sphere or arrow from the Links. Also, if anyone wants to play, I play on the Wii U's netplay o3o
Hope this helps!

 

[Xentas]

4.0b Peach and King Dedede are among some of the best updates to character's I've ever seen on a mod. Keep at it, lads.

 

[Kien]

I'm not sure Peach having any protection against projectiles is a good idea. Everyone has bad matchups. She can't be the exception.

 

[Neville]

Gonna be brutally honest.
The single most drastic change in a single matchup from 3.Q to 4.0b: Peach/Marth.
Easily from +2 for Marth to +2 for Peach.

I still need to upload that game for bragging rights.

 

[Thor]

Hi hi. I'm maining Peach in this game as I main her in Smash 4 (I'm new here lol)

I must say right off the bat. 4.0b Peach is EVERYTHING I EVER DREAMED OF. She has very very strong kill setups and guaranteed combos that do crazy percent due to high hitstun. The float canceling is superb in every way and side B and dash canceling really appeal to me.
I do have to agree that sword characters are not her forte. I also think the Links and Lucario MUs are terrible as of now and maybe her worst MUs due to projectiles keeping her off the stage and possibly gimping her.
However, like in Smash 4, I notice her aerials can cancel out a lot of projectiles (like Ness's PK Thunder). (Thor touched on this) Instead of buffing her like giving her armor and stuff, why not have it to where either 1. Peach Bomber has more hitbox priority over some projectiles, or 2. Give her aerials higher priority. For example, playing a Lvl 9 Lucario. The CPU likes to spam Aura Sphere a lot while I'm offstage, so I end up approaching from below. I learned her Peach Bomber doesn't clank or cancel an uncharged Aura Sphere, and I can't get close enough where Toad is reliable after canceling Side B's animation, still keeping me offstage. So yes. I suggest giving either Peach Bomber or her aerials higher priority, at least against weaker projectiles like an uncharged Aura Sphere or arrow from the Links. Also, if anyone wants to play, I play on the Wii U's netplay o3o
Hope this helps!

I'm not sure Peach having any protection against projectiles is a good idea. Everyone has bad matchups. She can't be the exception.

Isn't Peach counter cancellable? Like, I swear someone said you can do side+B -> neutral+B -> side+B if the counter is set off...

Also, Falco beats Peach handily [in addition to MK and Link, whom I currently think are her 3 worst MUs, although I'm not sure if MK's 3.Q version is harder for Peach to deal with than 4.0, given the changes to dair vs the changes to Mach Tornado].