On the contrary, I'd like Falco to get his own Melee Shine back. I may not have much experience playing this mod with other people, but to me, Falco's Down-B isn't all that useful. Sure, it reflects, and sure, it trips, but 99% of the time your opponent is either going to roll away after getting hit before you can follow up or punish you hard for missing. (And since this is Minus, that's a SUPER hard punish 100% of the time.) Falco's Melee Shine would expand his combo and edgeguarding game big time.
As it is now, Falco's down-b brings opponents towards him, and from there he can follow up. Seeing his Melee shine, maybe not as a permanent addition - but just an alternative .pac for those who want to try it out would be nice, but keep in mind that it's Brawl Minus. Making everything act like it does in Melee doesn't make Brawl better, it just turns Brawl into Melee.
I feel like the good Mario bros having powerful footstools makes sense, but Waluigi and Wario don't need them - I like the waft animation idea for Wario, but Waluigi just getting the Mario/Luigi footstool feels lazy [IF we want Mario Bros and evil versions to have whacky footstools].
I can't come up with a good idea for it tbh... maybe if Waluigi did a swimming motion off their heads that either had a powerful hitbox above [clearing away others in teams when he footstools] or else benefitting him somehow...?
Like what if Waluigi got his double jump back when he footstooled someone? I don't know, just spinning off ideas, but I do like the idea of unique footstools for Mario Bros/knock-off Mario Bros based on their games.
As it is now, Falco's down-b brings opponents towards him, and from there he can follow up. Seeing his Melee shine, maybe not as a permanent addition - but just an alternative .pac for those who want to try it out would be nice, but keep in mind that it's Brawl Minus. Making everything act like it does in Melee doesn't make Brawl better, it just turns Brawl into Melee.
It's very hard to get the opponent with the part that pulls inward, so it's not that useful. However I don't think his shine needs a complete overhaul.
Also please avoid double/triple posting. There's an edit button for a reason.
Yeah, this is what I meant. But even if we simply buffed the shine a bit, I don't think I'd find myself using it all that much, as he already has all the follow-up tools he needs in dthrow, DACUS, utilt, dtilt, and aerials. However, Falco doesn't have that many good combo starters; utilt and dtilt are the only ones I can really think of, but utilt isn't that fast and dtilt can get waaaaaaay too strong as percents go up. The Melee shine would give him a great combo starter, a "get off me" tool, and a fun throwback to the game when the bird was the bomb all in one.
Yeah, this is what I meant. But even if we simply buffed the shine a bit, I don't think I'd find myself using it all that much, as he already has all the follow-up tools he needs in dthrow, DACUS, utilt, dtilt, and aerials. However, Falco doesn't have that many good combo starters; utilt and dtilt are the only ones I can really think of, but utilt isn't that fast and dtilt can get waaaaaaay too strong as percents go up. The Melee shine would give him a great combo starter, a "get off me" tool, and a fun throwback to the game when the bird was the bomb all in one.
I don't quite follow you on some of your points. Falco has plenty of combo starters (any aerial, dthrow, utilt, dash attack, even usmash), and his combo game / edguarding game needs zero boosts.
Falcos utilt in minus is a psuedo shine, as it comes out rather fast and has a JC on the last few frames IIRC.
With the lack of a wavedash, melee shine wouldn't be nearly as effective as it was in melee.
I don't quite follow you on some of your points. Falco has plenty of combo starters (any aerial, dthrow, utilt, dash attack, even usmash), and his combo game / edguarding game needs zero boosts.
Falcos utilt in minus is a psuedo shine, as it comes out rather fast and has a JC on the last few frames IIRC.
With the lack of a wavedash, melee shine wouldn't be nearly as effective as it was in melee.
Yeah I know what you mean man, melee shine would be super cool on Falco. But this request has come up probably at least 20 times, and the devs have said that they don't just want to revert every char back to their melee forms. because they want minus to be unique. They try to keep melee stuff to Fox.
Yeah I know what you mean man, melee shine would be super cool on Falco. But this request has come up probably at least 20 times, and the devs have said that they don't just want to revert every char back to their melee forms. because they want minus to be unique. They try to keep melee stuff to Fox.
But I do think that giving Falco's Melee Shine to Fox would still be really cool and I don't see any reason why not to. Let's hope the Devs think the same.
Edit 1: a few minutes after I posted this, I found out that a changelog preview was released. I edited this with the changes in mind.
Edit 2: anything with this tag was additional ideas made as of 02/02/2017
Edit 3: new suggestions as of 02/08/2017
Edit 4: Kirby Changes 02/23/2017 (Found at bottom of Suggestions Spoiler for Bent 00 's convenience)
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Hey.
Here are some suggestions. I feel some people may have misinterpreted by ramblings as being insults aimed towards them. That was not the intention and I apologize. If you would like to read them anyway, they are put in Spoilers. Anyways, on with the Suggestions!
So I understand that often times, anytime someone has an opinion, there are people who like to shut it down. I'm not that active on the Minus forums anymore, so I don't really care if you make a nasty comment about my ideas. I'm not gonna bother reading paragraph after paragraph about why my ideas are wrong. However, before I make my departure*, I feel that some changes need to be made to Brawl Minus in order to get it out of this beta phase. This ranges from minor nitpicks to major elements that are broken that I feel inhibit my enjoyment of the game tremendously. I will try to categorize these suggestions into what is and isn't necessary. I rewrote most of these because they were initially written with disdain.
I understand if you disagree with some of these. Not everything is realizable. But in some cases, if some of these issues aren't fixed, I can't in good faith view Brawl Minus as anything more than a flawed beta. I realize I may come off as a bit bitter. I apologize in advance as it is a combination of people (real or imagined) frequently shitting on my ideas, struggling to find time to make content for my YouTube channel, and personal issues that I will not go into.
Right now, I just want to get these off my chest.
Necessary Changes Graphical, Sound, UI, etc.
The aesthetics and functionality of a game are very important components. As such, I put them in the "Necessary Changes" section due to them affecting the game as a whole
· I dunno what the difference between this and P:M's coding is, but characters yell out their death cry way too early/way too often. They could get hit by a smash attack at ~80% and yell out their cry, but they won't be KOed got a while. This is especially annoying for characters like Fox and Kirby. If this isn't something that is fixable, I get it. I just know that it can be annoying for first time players.
· Fix the CSS so that the buttons are easier the grab and place and remove the "white space" in between the character portraits. Both of these make it very aggravating to select characters. Don't write this off as a little detail and therefore unimportant. It is a component of the interface that has put me in a bad mood more times than I can count. It is because it is such a simple problem that it should be fixed.
· Graphics on Samus down b and Gandouken need to be quieted down. Most of the aura on the Gandouken and power bombs can be removed entirely. I am friends with a Smash Bros. player who is prone to epilepsy and I myself have eyesight problems, so it would be great if this was fixed.
Edit 1: so instead of the Gandouken becoming less bright, they decided to make it bigger. Will this remove the aura or is this something I should be worried about? The Graphical FX for Samus' Power Bombs are cut in half and have a different sound effect. Thank you.
Gameplay
· The walls have wonky collision detection that can gimp a lot of characters' recoveries. Some that come to mind are Pikachu's up b, Mewtwo's up b, Pichu's up b. It puts the move in a stationary position, gimping their recovery. It's not a matter of skill when the game itself is at fault here. Sure, I know how to work around it, but this problem shouldn't be in the game to begin with.
· Sheik's down throw is a weak tech chase move. It took me a while to figure out why I can't get a regrab after reading a roll/tech. It turns out that if the opponent holds A to perform a getup attack, Sheik is unable to shield due to the massive endlag on down Throw. This not only makes dThrow useless, but even if they do roll away, Sheik can't do anything until the endlag finishes. I understand that Sheik's dthrow having the Down Effect would give him a ridiculously good tech chase ability, but at least make Sheik able to shield a getup attack. Snake has and effective Down Effect on his dThrow, so why can't Sheik? He's gonna have a hard time against a character like Sonic. He can tech chase so easily with his down throw and his ability to cancel his jump into a standing grab. lolwut?
• Pichu....
1.) F smash electricity graphic doesn't always appear. Sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not.
2.)Pichu's face...
I didn't know Pichu was half zombie.
Elliot's expression matches mine. lol
3.) (low priority) Final smash should be unique to Pichu and not just a clone of Pikachu's.
4.) Literally everything Pikachu can do, Pichu does better. It's making Pikachu irrelevant. This can be fixed by nerfing Pichu and buffing Pikachu. Pichu shouldn't even have this many electric moves to begin with. It's a PRE evolution. What should be fixed exactly? Increase size of bair, uair and other tail moves slightly but decrease power, Pichus ability to cancel d smash into d smash, and remove Pichu's spammy down b to down b to down b. Pikachu has a hard enough time as it is. Pichu's down b (Thunder) chain is fucking ridiculous. Pika can do it twice while Pichu can do it after a jump, double jump and one of his three up specials.
Addendum: I know the devs said they "nerfed" it, but it needs to be taken out altogether. Don't simply add a little bit of endlag inbetween.
5.) (Not as important, I suppose.) Remove the self damaging effect on some of his moves. Pichu doesn't need to hurt himself every time he does a smash attack. The "holding down the button will do more damage" quirk is not my cup of tea to begin with, but at least remove the effect from SOME moves.
6.) And this is the most important one. Increase the size of Pichu's hurtbox. This isn't a matter of opinion. Pichu is, indeed, small. It's kinda the point of Pichu. I get that. All I'm saying is that he's...too small. He's smaller than in Melee and, to add on, his ears aren't part of his hitbox. They make up about 30% of his body. Some attacks go right through him and they need to be right on top of Pichu to hit him. This isn't goldeneye 64, This is minus.
Don't believe me? LEMME SHOW YOU!
And it's not only jabs...
Moderate Changes
Most of these are related to character balancing. Because of the nature of this topic, some issues are subjective. So I decided to categorize them as important, but not necessary.
· Perfect shielding is a bit problematic in it's function. It is still good for eliminating shield damage, but it still has pushback like any other shield. Maybe the PS could be changed to where you can act out of it immediately or it has no pushback or it can reflect certain projectiles. I've talked with some players on netplay and they say there isn't a reward or purpose for PSing besides keeping your shield from depleting.
· Could we have it so that getting off of a ledge is lagless, but keep the short timeframe of invincibility so that the player has to react quickly? Pretty please.....?
· Jiggs side taunt hitbox only sends opponent left. Unless their hitbox is massive (dk, bowser and d3), they can only be rested to the left. Can this be fixed please?
· I really don't have the patience right now to explain every possible reason as to why Waluigi sucks. I will say that the Grounded and Aerial Down Specials need to be reworked.
Grounded:
--Down B + A (+ A + A): good combo string. I can't really complain.
--Down B + B (chargeable): very difficult to set up. I attribute some of this to the difficulty of switching between pressing down B then neutral B.
--Down B + L/R: This isn't a very good mixup. It isn't any more effective than a normal sidestep or rolling.
Aerial:
--Down B + A: pointless, slow, lot of endlag. You're better off just using another aerial attack.
--Down B+ B: Doesn't KO until about 170-180% if I recall. Massive endlag doesn't allow for followups. Difficult to aim and if it misses, Waluigi is wide open for a punish. ugh.
--Down B + L/R: Stops aerial momentum which could be helpful. It would be neat if it could move in any direction or if it moved significantly farther or if it CANCELLED HITSTUN after 90 frames. That would be really interesting.
To recap, that's one good and one average move out of six Down B's. Besides that, his final smash is hard to setup. If the move is initiated while on the ground, it forces Waluigi to fullhop before hitting the tennis ball. I always just short hop and use the final smash so that I stay in place. Also, only the tennis racket KO's reasonably early. A minor nitpick, but I'd like to see this move more fleshed out.
· Samus' missiles are slow. If you drop from a platform and use your missile or super missile, the landing lag will cancel it. Her down special (Power Bombs) gives Samus a lot of aerial mobility which is good for ground mobility, but this makes it difficult to recover safely via bomb jumping. Maybe it's just me, but there isn't any feedback from using the Power Bombs due to Samus' light weight. Half the time, I can't tell where to position myself to recover from offstage. It's more of a control issue that isn't as easy to showcase as a glitch or graphical hiccup. A minor problem that I'm able to work with. I'm just asking for it to be tweeked.
I am meticulously explaining myself because I don't want some motherfucker saying that I just suck at the game. I can adapt, moron(s)! It is still a valid suggestion.
· Please buff Pikachu. I have many potential ideas. Make up aerial function like it does in Melee/P:M so that it can allow for followups/techchases/semispikes. OR make up air have more hitstun so that Pikachu's pseudo-pillaring technique is more effective...assuming that you correctly read your opponent's DI.
Pikachu can up tilt - uair (repeat at low percents) - dair spike - falling uair - repeat.
The problem with Pikachu's up air is that it can only juggle for so long before the opponent is too high up to continue. If anything, it's not really needed for the pillaring to work, so what's the point? Up special (Quick Attack) can't be used twice when aimed at certain angles. This has ruined my recovery more times than I'd like to admit. Using up b directly next to a wall will keep Pikachu in a stationary position, gimping it's recovery. This is a collision detection issue that I mentioned earlier.
Edit 1: Thanks for making my rant on up air useless, jerks! Naw, but seriously, thanks so much for changing the uair. It now spikes at the end of the move. Much appreciated!
· Ivysaur's Nair links a little too easily into itself. If you fastfall nair, it's very low knockback will pull you in for another. I hope this problem was already fixed. If so, disregard this.
· Falco's dair should not be auto cancelable from a short hop. Okay, so maybe it would be fine for Falco's Dair to be auto-cancelable from a shorthop, as it does require skill and timing. But I think it should have more landing lag in general. It makes matchups for a character like Bowser very difficult with his multiple dair strings.
· Wolf has this thing where he can jump cancel shine into fair, nair or dair and it pulls the opponent back in for an infinite. I'm fine with a shine combo, I guess, but could you at least make it not as inescapable, please. Part of it has to do with wolf's shine keeping all falling momentum, making the infinite pull the opponent back in. I suggest fixing the shine so that it stops most (or all) aerial momentum to alleviate the issue.
· What happened to Kirby? I don't even know where to start with him. I hope you guys have ideas because. I've got nothing. Sorry. I'm tired.
Edit 1: The semi spiking dtilt is neat, but I think Kirby might need more than that.
Edit 4: This rambling has no suggestion attached. Sorry about that.
• As a Meta Knight main, I hear a lot from people that side b (Drill Rush, i think) is too good of an approach option. I'm not sure of how to fix this without ruining the concept of a Minus MK. I like that it isn't as easy to continuously link side specials like it was in 4.0b. Besides that, I personally like it as is. I felt I should mention it anyway since I hear it a lot. Dash attack is really safe on shield since if it hits a shield, MK will pass through on the other side, making a punish very difficult.
Edit 1: Wow! Thanks! Drill Rush hitbox starts later and dair isn't stupidly easy to abuse. I'm still on the fence about the dash attack, though.
· I'm guessing the devs are already working on nerfing Mewtwo since he is a bit overpowered compared to the rest of the cast. I will say though that his tail attacks kill too early; dash attack, from what I've seen, is a little too good of an approach option; and with how broken Shadow Ball is, there should be a reward for Perfect Shielding it, but I already mentioned that earlier.
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Edit 2: Increase Universal Weight so that characters like Kirby, Jigglypuff, Fox, Captain Falcon, and so on don't feel so unwieldy in the air. This mostly applies to Kirby, Jigglypuff, and Pichu. They don't have a natural gravitational arc to their movements. When they jump up, they don't fall down naturally. It's almost like they fall even slower.
The Smash attacks on Mr. Game and Watch need to have more endlag. They can be spammed way too easily without seeing a recovery animation.
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Edit 3: Jigglypuff's side taunt hitbox only hits the opponent to the left. The only way to hit someone to the right would be against a character with a wide hurtbox such as Donkey Kong and Boweser
Minor Suggestions
· More silly animations on results screen, please? Beyond just Mario, Link, Zelda, Falco, and Wolf having slightly odd animations. I don't know I would go about putting them in a custom build. I don't know what the file names for result screen animations are.
· I would greatly appreciate a debug mode for Minus. Even if it's just ripped from Project M. I am the kind of person who likes to analyze the frame data of characters to help improve. I don't really like taking the .pac files and reinserting them into Project M because it makes the characters follow P:M's physics. Plus, not every character can be put into "Project Minus" since there isn't a CSS for Waluigi or Pichu in vanilla P:M.
Kirby Changes
• Kirby doesn't get a hat when he inhales Waluigi, Pichu, Mewtwo, Roy. For the final release, this should be fixed.
• Kirby doesn't get Royal Rampage from Bowser or the Fire Ball Shot thingy from Charizard. He instead gets their vanilla Brawl neutral specials. Can this be fixed? Is it even possible? It would be cool to have Kirby's copy ability match the ones that Bowser and Charizard have.
• When Kirby uses the Ice Climbers' copy ability, he shoots one ice block, but then a second ice block falls straight down below Kirby. It doesn't have a hitbox so I assume it is a graphical error.
• When he uses R.O.B.'s copy ability, Kirby can shoot several beams one after the other. The move doesn't fizzle out after the second beam like R.O.B.'s does.
• Once upon a time, when Kirby inhaled Peach, not only did he get the Toad counter ability, but he also got one turnip. If this is somehow an unfair mechanic, let me know why because I thought this was a cool feature since it gave Kirby a reason to copy the ability of Peach.
Unless you are a Brawl Minus Dev, I don't care why you think I'm wrong. I will not validate your trollish bullshit by responding. If anyone feels like giving constructive criticism, a rarity on this forum, just know that I appreciate it, but I'm may be too busy sorting my life out to reply.
If anyone asks for video evidence besides what I have given you, I am not able to provide some at the moment. I gave specific instructions on how and why certain things don't work. Do it yourself.
*by departure, I mean the forums. I'll still play netplay and make videos about B-.
But I do think that giving Falco's Melee Shine to Fox would still be really cool and I don't see any reason why not to. Let's hope the Devs think the same.
I agree. For the guy who suggested putting it on falco, it would be far superior on fox just because he can wavedash which makes him able to approach consistently with it and his Short Hop Auto Cancel (SHAC) Dair would be able to lead into it pretty well.
I dunno what the difference between this and P:M's coding is, but characters yell out their death cry way too early/way too often. They could get hit by a smash attack at ~80% and yell out their cry, but they won't be KOed got a while.
Pin Clock once mentioned that the code came from Vanilla Brawl, and all the Minus team did was re-enable it. I guess the Brawl team tried it out, found it obnoxious, and removed it instead of fixing it.
so instead of the Gandouken becoming less bright, they decided to make it bigger. Will this remove the aura or is this something I should be worried about?
The walls have wonky collision detection that can gimp a lot of characters' recoveries. Some that come to mind are Pikachu's up b, Mewtwo's up b, Pichu's up b.
Also Zelda's. In her case, it happens reliably on the following walls:
The right wall of Warioware.
The left wall of Yoshi's Island.
Both walls of Yoshi's story.
Both walls of Hyrule Castle.
Someone (I forget who) claimed that this only happens if you're holding slightly towards the stage, but that definitely isn't it. For one thing, I've double-checked and I'm holding straight up. For another, the issue almost never happens on the following walls:
The left wall of Warioware.
The right wall of Yoshi's Island.
Both walls of Castle Siege.
On these walls, you can actually hold towards the stage (by just a tiny amount), and Zelda will still teleport safely.
The easiest way to reproduce this bug is to be touching the wall before you press up+B. Use your wall jump first so that you don't accidentally jump away.
There were a couple threads discussing this in the Pichu forum, with the almost-consensus being that yes, Pichu should be bigger. (I say "almost" because there was one notable holdout.)
Perfect shielding is a bit problematic in it's function. It is still good for eliminating shield damage, but it still has pushback like any other shield
Are you talking about the opponent being pushed back? Because they may be pushed back, but you don't move at all.
The wiki states that "the character takes no shield damage [...] and may immediately perform a counterattack while the attacker is stuck in hitlag." However, in Minus (and possibly also vBrawl), there's a noticeable delay before you can act. Maybe it's shorter than if you shield regularly, but not by much.
I guess it isn't obvious, but this gif shows both a powershield and a regular shield. The powershield has slightly different GFX, and the green Lucario turns around afterwards. Also, as noted above, the blue Lucario slides slightly after the regular shield.
(I'm aware that Double Team is being reworked; I'm just using it as an example of a fast move that goes past shields.)
Actually, dtilt already stage spikes (not semi spikes), and they're making it not stage spike in 4.0.
I haven't played Kirby since the days of 2.X.6 (back when he could cancel Inhale into grab and airdodge out of Stone), so maybe I just don't understand the character anymore. However, it seems to me that Kirby turned into one of the weaker characters, and I'm hoping that they've got some buffs planned.
I agree. For the guy who suggested putting it on falco, it would be far superior on fox just because he can wavedash which makes him able to approach consistently with it and his Short Hop Auto Cancel (SHAC) Dair would be able to lead into it pretty well.
Eh, I found a neat enough substitute for now. Ness's magnet shenanigans are surprisingly Falco-esque, and while the rest of the character isn't even close, he's so unique and fun!
5.) (Not as important, I suppose.) Remove the self damaging effect on some of his moves. Pichu doesn't need to hurt himself every time he does a smash attack. The "holding down the button will do more damage" quirk is not my cup of tea to begin with, but at least remove the effect from SOME moves.
· I really don't have the patience right now to explain every possible reason as to why Waluigi sucks. I will say that the Grounded and Aerial Down Specials need to be reworked.
Grounded:
--Down B + A (+ A + A): good combo string. I can't really complain.
--Down B + B (chargeable): very difficult to set up. I attribute some of this to the difficulty of switching between pressing down B then neutral B.
--Down B + L/R: This isn't a very good mixup. It isn't any more effective than a normal sidestep or rolling.
Aerial:
--Down B + A: pointless, slow, lot of endlag. You're better off just using another aerial attack.
--Down B+ B: Doesn't KO until about 170-180% if I recall. Massive endlag doesn't allow for followups. Difficult to aim and if it misses, Waluigi is wide open for a punish. ugh.
--Down B + L/R: Stops aerial momentum which could be helpful. It would be neat if it could move in any direction or if it moved significantly farther or if it CANCELLED HITSTUN after 90 frames. That would be really interesting.
To recap, that's one good and one average move out of six Down B's. Besides that, his final smash is hard to setup. If the move is initiated while on the ground, it forces Waluigi to fullhop before hitting the tennis ball. I always just short hop and use the final smash so that I stay in place. Also, only the tennis racket KO's reasonably early. A minor nitpick, but I'd like to see this move more fleshed out.
Unless you are a Brawl Minus Dev, I don't care why you think I'm wrong. I will not validate your trollish bullshit by responding. If anyone feels like giving constructive criticism, a rarity on this forum, just know that I appreciate it, but I'm may be too busy sorting my life out to reply.
""Where's the video proof, huh!? You're a fraud, AGS!""]If anyone asks for video evidence besides what I have given you, I am not able to provide some at the moment. I gave specific instructions on how and why certain things don't work. Do it yourself.
Spoken like a true design novice. "My way works for me, so I don't care about yours."
I agree that the B button is a lot more convenient (when applicable), but that's no excuse not to improve the A button. There's literally no downside to increasing the tokens' hitboxes; it isn't like they'll get in the way of anything.
Siivagunner on Yoshi's Story: Please filter joke requests better, Bent. Rerelease 4.0BC in a way that is easier to unzip: This is coming soon More BRSTMS: Maybe in the Netplay build. On the Wii build, music will only be added if it is necessary/essential. Brawl portraits uneditable: This is less a Minus issue and more a BBox issue IIRC. /: B-Reversable Transform: That'd be pretty neat, let's do it Falco Shine: This conflicts with Fox's designs and ideologies, we will have to say no here. Shine recolors: Unlike early Minus, we will not be pointlessly recoloring things like shine. Falco's Shine again: Falco with Falco's shine only really works after a wavedash, and there's no way we're making Falco Wavedash, we'd have to redesign the whole character if we did that. Buff Ganon: Ganon is getting buffed. Why is something so insanely vague a request? Warlock Punch needs Super Armor: It's an OHKO. No it doesn't. It is getting invulnerability for the first frame it comes out to fix a glitch with Gandouken, but that is it. Dark Fists: Dark Dive is a much better move. Variety for Variety's sake doesn't always mean it's better. Cancel Stone into dTaunt: Why? This seems really unnecessary and not all that funny. Make upwards fTilt actually Upwards fTilt: This can be done Extreme Pika: Interesting, but we will pass on these. Non-C4 stuff: Unnecessary with C4 stuff C4 Stuff: Already confirmed in the changelog.
Just for the record, Dark Fists is universally considered one of Dorf's best moves in smash 4 within the Dorf community, and solves one of Dorf's biggest issues (that being his recovery) with the super armor on start up. Same thing applies to WizDropKick and the angle it flies. So Dark Dive is not actually better. It's good, yes, but not better. Especially since if you put DF in minus, it literally true combos into that insanely powerful uppercut.
I don't care which you go with, but I'd prefer you guys all be properly informed.
So that leaves everything highlighted in red below unresolved:
--- Give Snake more control over when placed C4 explodes, by making it not detonate until Special is released after being primed. [Thor] Bent 00: "If we go this route, I would suggest that Held Down-Special lock Snake into a pre-trigger state of his Down-Special animation, not proceeding with the C4 explosion and the rest of the animation until Special is released. This state could Cancel into anything except Specials, to opt out of the detonation."
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I Request that we adapt a few things from Project M Snake's C4: Holding Down-Special results in a fake-out, and C4 does not fall off stuck opponents or transfer between fighters on contact. Perhaps it should also not self-detonate after a set time, and instead, remain in place until it is detonated, or vanish when Snake is K.O.ed. [Bent 00]
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Is everything highlighted in red above REJECTED? I'm guessing that C4 will not transfer between foes, if it cannot transfer back to Snake, but confirmation of that would be nice.
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To help prevent accidental suicides, allow Zelda's Up-Air to Cancel into Jump and Farore's Wind, so she can save herself if "A" is held a little too long offstage. [Bent 00]
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Will add the long list of Requests from AGentleStar later, when I have more time for this.
I believe that last post of his set the record for the most Requests submitted in a single post!
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@Dusk: Did you know that Pin responded to one of your Requests, and asked for more details from you about it?
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Can you implement menu shortcuts activated by holding certain button combinations? [Dusk] Pin Clock: "Could you specify what kinds of shortcuts you would want?"
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Didn't really mention WDK asking for it to get in, just as a point of reference to the argument. DD in minus is good because it has the dumb angle and the powerful uppercut, but it's still super easy to gimp, where DF simply eats through gimps with armor, and hits people into the uppercut guaranteed. Minus Dorf doesn't need extra options to recover, I just felt like correcting what was said.
Edit 1: a few minutes after I posted this, I found out that a changelog preview was released. I edited this with the changes in mind.
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Hey.
So I understand that often times, anytime someone has an opinion, there are people who like to shut it down. I'm not that active on the Minus forums anymore, so I don't really care if you make a nasty comment about my ideas. I'm not gonna bother reading paragraph after paragraph about why my ideas are wrong. However, before I make my departure*, I feel that some changes need to be made to Brawl Minus in order to get it out of this beta phase. This ranges from minor nitpicks to major elements that are broken that I feel inhibit my enjoyment of the game tremendously. I will try to categorize these suggestions into what is and isn't necessary. I rewrote most of these because they were initially written with disdain.
I understand if you disagree with some of these. Not everything is realizable. But in some cases, if some of these issues aren't fixed, I can't in good faith view Brawl Minus as anything more than a flawed beta. I realize I may come off as a bit bitter. I apologize in advance as it is a combination of people (real or imagined) frequently shitting on my ideas, struggling to find time to make content for my YouTube channel, and personal issues that I will not go into.
Right now, I just want to get these off my chest.
Necessary Changes Graphical, Sound, UI, etc.
The aesthetics and functionality of a game are very important components. As such, I put them in the "Necessary Changes" section due to them affecting the game as a whole
· I dunno what the difference between this and P:M's coding is, but characters yell out their death cry way too early/way too often. They could get hit by a smash attack at ~80% and yell out their cry, but they won't be KOed got a while. This is especially annoying for characters like Fox and Kirby. If this isn't something that is fixable, I get it. I just know that it can be annoying for first time players.
· Fix the CSS so that the buttons are easier the grab and place and remove the "white space" in between the character portraits. Both of these make it very aggravating to select characters. Don't write this off as a little detail and therefore unimportant. It is a component of the interface that has put me in a bad mood more times than I can count. It is because it is such a simple problem that it should be fixed.
· Graphics on Samus down b and Gandouken need to be quieted down. Most of the aura on the Gandouken and power bombs can be removed entirely. I am friends with a Smash Bros. player who is prone to epilepsy and I myself have eyesight problems, so it would be great if this was fixed.
Edit 1: so instead of the Gandouken becoming less bright, they decided to make it bigger. Will this remove the aura or is this something I should be worried about? The Graphical FX for Samus' Power Bombs are cut in half and have a different sound effect. Thank you.
Gameplay
· The walls have wonky collision detection that can gimp a lot of characters' recoveries. Some that come to mind are Pikachu's up b, Mewtwo's up b, Pichu's up b. It puts the move in a stationary position, gimping their recovery. It's not a matter of skill when the game itself is at fault here. Sure, I know how to work around it, but this problem shouldn't be in the game to begin with.
· Sheik's down throw is a weak tech chase move. It took me a while to figure out why I can't get a regrab after reading a roll/tech. It turns out that if the opponent holds A to perform a getup attack, Sheik is unable to shield due to the massive endlag on down Throw. This not only makes dThrow useless, but even if they do roll away, Sheik can't do anything until the endlag finishes. I understand that Sheik's dthrow having the Down Effect would give him a ridiculously good tech chase ability, but at least make Sheik able to shield a getup attack. Snake has and effective Down Effect on his dThrow, so why can't Sheik? He's gonna have a hard time against a character like Sonic. He can tech chase so easily with his down throw and his ability to cancel his jump into a standing grab. lolwut?
• Pichu....
1.) F smash electricity graphic doesn't always appear. Sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not.
2.)Pichu's face...
I didn't know Pichu was half zombie.
Elliot's expression matches mine. lol
3.) (low priority) Final smash should be unique to Pichu and not just a clone of Pikachu's.
4.) Literally everything Pikachu can do, Pichu does better. It's making Pikachu irrelevant. This can be fixed by nerfing Pichu and buffing Pikachu. Pichu shouldn't even have this many electric moves to begin with. It's a PRE evolution. What should be fixed exactly? Increase size of bair, uair and other tail moves slightly but decrease power, Pichus ability to cancel d smash into d smash, and remove Pichu's spammy down b to down b to down b. Pikachu has a hard enough time as it is. Pichu's down b (Thunder) chain is fucking ridiculous. Pika can do it twice while Pichu can do it after a jump, double jump and one of his three up specials.
Addendum: I know the devs said they "nerfed" it, but it needs to be taken out altogether. Don't simply add a little bit of endlag inbetween.
5.) (Not as important, I suppose.) Remove the self damaging effect on some of his moves. Pichu doesn't need to hurt himself every time he does a smash attack. The "holding down the button will do more damage" quirk is not my cup of tea to begin with, but at least remove the effect from SOME moves.
6.) And this is the most important one. Increase the size of Pichu's hurtbox. This isn't a matter of opinion. Pichu is, indeed, small. It's kinda the point of Pichu. I get that. All I'm saying is that he's...too small. He's smaller than in Melee and, to add on, his ears aren't part of his hitbox. They make up about 30% of his body. Some attacks go right through him and they need to be right on top of Pichu to hit him. This isn't goldeneye 64, This is minus.
Don't believe me? LEMME SHOW YOU!
And it's not only jabs...
Moderate Changes
Most of these are related to character balancing. Because of the nature of this topic, some issues are subjective. So I decided to categorize them as important, but not necessary.
· Perfect shielding is a bit problematic in it's function. It is still good for eliminating shield damage, but it still has pushback like any other shield. Maybe the PS could be changed to where you can act out of it immediately or it has no pushback or it can reflect certain projectiles. I've talked with some players on netplay and they say there isn't a reward or purpose for PSing besides keeping your shield from depleting.
· Could we have it so that getting off of a ledge is lagless, but keep the short timeframe of invincibility so that the player has to react quickly? Pretty please.....?
· Jiggs side taunt hitbox only sends opponent left. Unless their hitbox is massive (dk, bowser and d3), they can only be rested to the left. Can this be fixed please?
· I really don't have the patience right now to explain every possible reason as to why Waluigi sucks. I will say that the Grounded and Aerial Down Specials need to be reworked.
Grounded:
--Down B + A (+ A + A): good combo string. I can't really complain.
--Down B + B (chargeable): very difficult to set up. I attribute some of this to the difficulty of switching between pressing down B then neutral B.
--Down B + L/R: This isn't a very good mixup. It isn't any more effective than a normal sidestep or rolling.
Aerial:
--Down B + A: pointless, slow, lot of endlag. You're better off just using another aerial attack.
--Down B+ B: Doesn't KO until about 170-180% if I recall. Massive endlag doesn't allow for followups. Difficult to aim and if it misses, Waluigi is wide open for a punish. ugh.
--Down B + L/R: Stops aerial momentum which could be helpful. It would be neat if it could move in any direction or if it moved significantly farther or if it CANCELLED HITSTUN after 90 frames. That would be really interesting.
To recap, that's one good and one average move out of six Down B's. Besides that, his final smash is hard to setup. If the move is initiated while on the ground, it forces Waluigi to fullhop before hitting the tennis ball. I always just short hop and use the final smash so that I stay in place. Also, only the tennis racket KO's reasonably early. A minor nitpick, but I'd like to see this move more fleshed out.
· Samus' missiles are slow. If you drop from a platform and use your missile or super missile, the landing lag will cancel it. Her down special (Power Bombs) gives Samus a lot of aerial mobility which is good for ground mobility, but this makes it difficult to recover safely via bomb jumping. Maybe it's just me, but there isn't any feedback from using the Power Bombs due to Samus' light weight. Half the time, I can't tell where to position myself to recover from offstage. It's more of a control issue that isn't as easy to showcase as a glitch or graphical hiccup. A minor problem that I'm able to work with. I'm just asking for it to be tweeked.
I am meticulously explaining myself because I don't want some motherfucker saying that I just suck at the game. I can adapt, moron(s)! It is still a valid suggestion.
· Please buff Pikachu. I have many potential ideas. Make up aerial function like it does in Melee/P:M so that it can allow for followups/techchases/semispikes. OR make up air have more hitstun so that Pikachu's pseudo-pillaring technique is more effective...assuming that you correctly read your opponent's DI.
Pikachu can up tilt - uair (repeat at low percents) - dair spike - falling uair - repeat.
The problem with Pikachu's up air is that it can only juggle for so long before the opponent is too high up to continue. If anything, it's not really needed for the pillaring to work, so what's the point? Up special (Quick Attack) can't be used twice when aimed at certain angles. This has ruined my recovery more times than I'd like to admit. Using up b directly next to a wall will keep Pikachu in a stationary position, gimping it's recovery. This is a collision detection issue that I mentioned earlier.
Edit 1: Thanks for making my rant on up air useless, jerks! Naw, but seriously, thanks so much for changing the uair. It now spikes at the end of the move. Much appreciated!
· Ivysaur's Nair links a little too easily into itself. If you fastfall nair, it's very low knockback will pull you in for another. I hope this problem was already fixed. If so, disregard this.
· Falco's dair should not be auto cancelable from a short hop. Okay, so maybe it would be fine for Falco's Dair to be auto-cancelable from a shorthop, as it does require skill and timing. But I think it should have more landing lag in general. It makes matchups for a character like Bowser very difficult with his multiple dair strings.
· Wolf has this thing where he can jump cancel shine into fair, nair or dair and it pulls the opponent back in for an infinite. I'm fine with a shine combo, I guess, but could you at least make it not as inescapable, please. Part of it has to do with wolf's shine keeping all falling momentum, making the infinite pull the opponent back in. I suggest fixing the shine so that it stops most (or all) aerial momentum to alleviate the issue.
· What happened to Kirby? I don't even know where to start with him. I hope you guys have ideas because. I've got nothing. Sorry. I'm tired.
Edit 1: The semi spiking dtilt is neat, but I think Kirby might need more than that.
• As a Meta Knight main, I hear a lot from people that side b (Drill Rush, i think) is too good of an approach option. I'm not sure of how to fix this without ruining the concept of a Minus MK. I like that it isn't as easy to continuously link side specials like it was in 4.0b. Besides that, I personally like it as is. I felt I should mention it anyway since I hear it a lot. Dash attack is really safe on shield since if it hits a shield, MK will pass through on the other side, making a punish very difficult.
Edit 1: Wow! Thanks! Drill Rush hitbox starts later and dair isn't stupidly easy to abuse. I'm still on the fence about the dash attack, though.
· I'm guessing the devs are already working on nerfing Mewtwo since he is a bit overpowered compared to the rest of the cast. I will say though that his tail attacks kill too early; dash attack, from what I've seen, is a little too good of an approach option; and with how broken Shadow Ball is, there should be a reward for Perfect Shielding it, but I already mentioned that earlier.
Minor Suggestions
· More silly animations on results screen, please? Beyond just Mario, Link, Zelda, Falco, and Wolf having slightly odd animations. I don't know I would go about putting them in a custom build. I don't know what the file names for result screen animations are.
· I would greatly appreciate a debug mode for Minus. Even if it's just ripped from Project M. I am the kind of person who likes to analyze the frame data of characters to help improve. I don't really like taking the .pac files and reinserting them into Project M because it makes the characters follow P:M's physics. Plus, not every character can be put into "Project Minus" since there isn't a CSS for Waluigi or Pichu in vanilla P:M.
Unless you are a Brawl Minus Dev, I don't care why you think I'm wrong. I will not validate your trollish bullshit by responding. If anyone feels like giving constructive criticism, a rarity on this forum, just know that I appreciate it, but I'm may be too busy sorting my life out to reply.
If anyone asks for video evidence besides what I have given you, I am not able to provide some at the moment. I gave specific instructions on how and why certain things don't work. Do it yourself.
*by departure, I mean the forums. I'll still play netplay and make videos about B-.
The first was to make Stone safer, because as-is, it seems to be a lot of risk for little reward. In terms of risk, it doesn't seem to have more armor than in vBrawl, and I can't find any way to cancel it (I even checked for midair cancels). In terms of reward, it doesn't do exceptional damage, shield damage, or knockback. Is there something I'm missing?
Other than that, I just thought the sound clip might fit there, like how Pit says "You can't defeat me!" when he techs. Though I guess Stone doesn't last that long, so popping out of it might not warrant saying hi.
I did not thanks. Well anything that would allow someone to go directly to the css vs mode screen, to the controls or other options screen, or any other important aspect that can be done on the fly. I will study this when I get the chance to see how likely it would be I have a vague idea on how the menu works and a basic knowledge of ASM and how the game works. I need to find the values for each menu and remap button presses so that it could link to said menu.
Falco's Shine again: Falco with Falco's shine only really works after a wavedash, and there's no way we're making Falco Wavedash, we'd have to redesign the whole character if we did that.
More wavedashing is good it would give characters a good movement option to zip in and out of areas, and would give the players something to learn that would allow them to develop better mind games, better baits, and give everyone a better approach/anti-approach option if done right.
Also this statement about Falco having Melee shine isn't necessarily true, it would definitely be better if falco had a wavedash to do it. I know I probably said otherwise somewhere else but I was wrong. It would buff his offensive game but nerf his defensive game at most if he got melee shine. The reason it would buff it because he could pillar off of nair, and dair and he could do shine jc combos where he could shine jc shine jc shine jc shine because of his 4 jumps. It would also give him a more consistent off the top kill. It would hurt his defensive game because currently falco has one of the better, probably the best, utilities to deal with projectiles but outside of that its kinda niche. You could do stuff with it like jab to reflector and go from there depending on there distance from you. It definitely has its merits right now.
More wavedashing is good it would give characters a good movement option to zip in and out of areas, and would give the players something to learn that would allow them to develop better mind games, better baits, and give everyone a better approach/anti-approach option if done right.
Just responding to this bit before I discuss the other thoughts with the dev team.
Giving the cast of Brawl Minus the ability to wavedash takes away a notable part of what makes it BRAWL Minus. We of the dev team will not be adding pure wavedashing for anyone besides Fox. There are Wavedash-like techniques such as Crouchdashing, ROBdashing and Wolf's psuedo-Wavedash, but the only one with a true Wavedash will be Fox.
