ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
This. Yes, I agree that Roy's Side-B shouldn't diminish.
Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC
- Thread starter Bent 00
- Start date
This. Yes, I agree that Roy's Side-B shouldn't diminish.
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
Oh, and I'm a bit of an idiot. For the requests upon changing Roy's F-Air and N-Air's second hit KGB, please delete those. I did a bit more studying and training with his F-Air and N-air, and they are actually better than I expected for their combo game. Again, please delete those requests. Other than that, please keep the requests upon changing Roy's F-Tilt Grounded and Aerial.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
What is aerial ftilt?
Nvm you answered in other thread
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
Deleted:
Roy:
---
F-Air: Second hit needs to be as strong current N-Air's second hit. [ESC Artiste]
N-Air: Less KGB on second hit, keep KGB on first hit. [ESC Artiste]The second hit of F-Air is quite difficult to pull of because of the angle it needs to hit, and in its current state, it cannot KO as early as it should. Roy's playstyle revolves around being Captain Falcon levels of aggressive, and thus his F-Air needs to compliment that style-hitting hard and fast. Right now, it's his Neutral Air that does this (this aerial is stupidly powerful), which makes his F-Air more of a spacing tool-a completely different playstyle that condones more towards Marth. Thus Roy's second hit F-Air needs to have his current N-Air's KGB. This could also help Roy in giving him more options with the RoyDash tech combos (see link below). (Original Thread)
---
---As I said before, Roy's N-Air is stupidly powerful. Like, horizontal-KO-at-50-percent-on-stage powerful. That's mainly due to the second hit of his N-air. It's great at KO-ing, but that's all it can do. Even when executed as a Quick Strike (see link below), it won't allow for proper follow-ups. It also doesn't help that the N-Air has next to no vertical hitbox (similar to Marth's N-Air) making it very situational. So, to increase Roy's N-Air combo potential, lessen the KGB of the N-Air's second hit, but keep the current KGB of it's first hit. (Original Thread)
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
SilverStarApple
Well-Known Member
Ivysaur needs buffed fsmash knockback scaling and slightly more damage. Dtilt also needs slightly more damage, but the knockback is fine.
Also, could the title screen have the announcer yell Brawl Minus on it? The Title Scream is awesome, it makes everything cooler.
Also, could the title screen have the announcer yell Brawl Minus on it? The Title Scream is awesome, it makes everything cooler.
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
THIS. ALL OF MY YES. I would love the announcer say the title name (especially if it were announced like in SSB64). I can imagine it now.
"Super! Smash! Bros.! MIINNUUUUUUUUUUUUSSSSSS!!!!!!" xD
SilverStarApple
Well-Known Member
Dude, YES.
But instead of "haha lol im so bad" like some lesser being would do, go FULL HAM and break the limits on ham, because breaking the limits is what Brawl Minus is all about!
This move needs neither of these improvements. It sets up easily for U-air followups which can lead to kills very easily. I honestly am not sure how it could be easier to hit out of (it's 90 degrees, no random direction). Damage buffs are unnecessary because the followups it gets are plenty powerful.
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
This thread is to revise for the request on Roy's Aerial F-Tilt, and why for the time being Roy players should never use the C-Stick in the air. This new find also can be found in the Roy 4.0bc thread.
Roy's Current Aerial F-Tilt Glitch: Roy's C-Stick Aerial input before doublejump causes him to lose his jump.
Apparently, Roy's Aerial F-Tilt isn't even that at all. It's Roy's first hit on his aerial, then automatically jump cancels without player input, as I said before. However, I just found that it can only be executed before Roy doublejumps, so it looks to be more of a glitch. Plus, when activated, the jump cancel is counted as a doublejump, meaning you can't execute anymore jumps afterwards, thus lead to some very bad SD's. This is obviously a big problem, and I am worried that it's not just Roy who has this glitch. Please remove this so it doesn't become the cause of any unwanted SD's.
Revision on Request for Roy's Aerial F-Titlt: Roy's C-Stick Aerial allows Roy to perform his F-Tilt in the air.
So, my revision is as follows: Instead of having an automatic jump cancel for Roy, make it to where I can activate Roy's F-Tilt projectile in mid-air. His F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? This could negate the need to add speed to his F-Tilt, as the increased range and ability to use in mid-air will allow him to compete against heavy projectile users. In short, slightly but noticeably increase Roy's F-Tilt range, and make him be able to use his projectile in the air.
Roy's Current Aerial F-Tilt Glitch: Roy's C-Stick Aerial input before doublejump causes him to lose his jump.
Apparently, Roy's Aerial F-Tilt isn't even that at all. It's Roy's first hit on his aerial, then automatically jump cancels without player input, as I said before. However, I just found that it can only be executed before Roy doublejumps, so it looks to be more of a glitch. Plus, when activated, the jump cancel is counted as a doublejump, meaning you can't execute anymore jumps afterwards, thus lead to some very bad SD's. This is obviously a big problem, and I am worried that it's not just Roy who has this glitch. Please remove this so it doesn't become the cause of any unwanted SD's.
Revision on Request for Roy's Aerial F-Titlt: Roy's C-Stick Aerial allows Roy to perform his F-Tilt in the air.
So, my revision is as follows: Instead of having an automatic jump cancel for Roy, make it to where I can activate Roy's F-Tilt projectile in mid-air. His F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? This could negate the need to add speed to his F-Tilt, as the increased range and ability to use in mid-air will allow him to compete against heavy projectile users. In short, slightly but noticeably increase Roy's F-Tilt range, and make him be able to use his projectile in the air.
Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
ESC Artiste: Here's how I have your Roy Requests listed currently:
Think you could, uh, condense them a lot for me? I normally do that myself for most Requests, but I'm kinda busy and I don't know Roy as well as you do. Please make your Requests clear and concise, so the Devs can read them quickly and understand them easily. Thanks.
---
Aerial F-Tilt/C-Stick F-Air: Remove the automatic jump, and let it be just the first hit of the F-Air. [ESC Artiste]
The Aerial (C-Stick) F-Tilt is very annoying, as its automatic jump comes out too quick to follow up with something like a N-Air or D-Air. Instead Roy becomes wide open for your opponent to take advantage of the situation. It also doesn't help that it executes at various points when I don't want it to use it, especially when my fingers are moving so quickly in the middle of a match. To fix this, make it a 'C-Stick Only' move to avoid the unintentional Joystick inputs. I would also request taking out the jump, and make the Aerial F-Tilt just have the second hit cancelled completely. This could allow a follow-up into another Aerial, thus allowing Roy have more options in taking an aggressive approach. Hell, Roy could have a more aggressive version of the Ken Combo or something of the like. (Original Thread)---Apparently, Roy's Aerial F-Tilt isn't even that at all. It's Roy's first hit on his aerial, then automatically jump cancels without player input, as I said before. However, I just found that it can only be executed before Roy doublejumps, so it looks to be more of a glitch. Plus, when activated, the jump cancel is counted as a doublejump, meaning you can't execute anymore jumps afterwards, thus lead to some very bad SD's. This is obviously a big problem, and I am worried that it's not just Roy who has this glitch. So, my revision for my request is not only for the automatic jump cancel glitch to be taken out, but for the second hit of Roy's F-Air to be cancellable upon user input and not automatically.
Ground F-Tilt: Moderate increase to projectile range (and possibly speed) to be able to stand against heavy projectile users. [ESC Artiste]
Roy's F-Tilt on the ground is pretty good in terms of damage and multiple hitboxes. The problem is that he loses at least 75% or more against heavy projectile users like Samus, Toon Link, and Ness/Lucas (Link and Snake aren't too much of a hassle). Otherwise he has to resort to spacing with his other moves-all of which are specifically tailored to aggressive play. I could suggest maybe some increase in speed-though if the range was increased enough, along with the projectile already having multiple hitboxes,, it might not need it in the long run. Just increase the range of the projectile enough to make Roy decrease his lose rate to around 55-60% so it's not near one-sided towards the heavy projectile users-with a maybe in buffing the projectile's speed-and his F-Tilt would then be fine. (Original Thread)---Instead of having an automatic jump cancel for Roy, make it to where I can activate Roy's F-Tilt projectile in mid-air. His F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? This could negate the need to add speed to his F-Tilt, as the increased range and ability to use in mid-air will allow him to compete against heavy projectile users. In short, slightly but noticeably increase Roy's F-Tilt range, and make him be able to use his projectile in the air.
Think you could, uh, condense them a lot for me? I normally do that myself for most Requests, but I'm kinda busy and I don't know Roy as well as you do. Please make your Requests clear and concise, so the Devs can read them quickly and understand them easily. Thanks.
player_03
P3
If you start charging Eruption in midair, the charge timer will reset when you land.
The timer reads 1.70 on the frame Ike touches down, but he doesn't flash bright orange until 2.63 seconds later. I assume this discrepancy is because I recorded at 30fps, but it could also mean that the timer resets one frame after landing.
The timer reads 1.70 on the frame Ike touches down, but he doesn't flash bright orange until 2.63 seconds later. I assume this discrepancy is because I recorded at 30fps, but it could also mean that the timer resets one frame after landing.
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
For the purpose of not confusing the Devs, just have the revised requests displayed, and not the original requests. So, here are condensed versions of the revised requests.
Current F-Air Cancel Glitch: Roy's F-Air Cancel before doublejump causes him to lose his jump. Please fix.
When tapping the joystick very quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward in midair before Roy's doublejump, Roy executes a jump cancel that not only trips up players, but also acts as the doublejump causing Roy to not have anymore jumps left, thus leading to unwanted SD's. By allowing the jump cancel to not only happen before, but also after the doublejump and have it not count as a jump, the glitch should be fixed.
F-Tilt: Allow Roy to activate his F-Tilt Projectile in midair with a slight increase in range.
Roy's F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? Also, increasing his projectile range slightly but noticeably could help in dealing with other projectile users and spacies. The increased range and ability to use the F-Tilt projectile in mid-air will allow him to at least stand firm in unfavorable matchups.
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I'm very confused on how this happens to you. I personally use to play A LOT of Roy myself and I enjoy using his F-air cancel into other aerials because it adds extra variety to his kit and I love muh variety
. I have never had this occurred to me, out of curiousity what is your controller setup and are you playing on console or dolphin?
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
I play with Tap Jump Off, and I have my C-Stick set to Attack. I play on the Wii.
It happens to me, and I don't understand why. I've even gone into practice to test it out, and sure enough Roy's F-Air Cancel can only work before the doublejump, and if so it counts as a doublejump. It's frustrating to say the least.
It happens to me, and I don't understand why. I've even gone into practice to test it out, and sure enough Roy's F-Air Cancel can only work before the doublejump, and if so it counts as a doublejump. It's frustrating to say the least.
My request is that Fox's shorthop height be reverted to what it was. It feels clunky and unnatural and not Melee like at all which as far as I know is the sole design philosophy behind Fox's character. I just don't want to play Fox anymore because the way he plays now is pretty alien from how he played before and I don't really feel like re-learning a character that's changed so much.
tldr: 4.0bc Fox is like ROB when his sideb was removed. Something's missing and he just doesn't hold up as he should imo.
tldr: 4.0bc Fox is like ROB when his sideb was removed. Something's missing and he just doesn't hold up as he should imo.
I agree with LB's stance, the shine nerf seemed understandable but the other nerfs, especially the jump squat and shorthop height, felt unneccessary and tacked on.
Edit: Maybe aerials needed the adjustments idk but I do feel like stuff relating to his hops wasn't needed.
Edit: Maybe aerials needed the adjustments idk but I do feel like stuff relating to his hops wasn't needed.
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Bent 00
Longtime Limit Breaker
player_03: IIRC, Ike's Eruption charge being reset by landing is caused by the same glitch that causes Falcon's slow-motion "Instant" Falcon Punch. Something to do with landing Specials mid-move... Last time I asked about it, the Devs said they could not fix it.
ESC Artiste:
Roy:
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Aerial F-Tilt/C-Stick F-Air: Remove the automatic jump, and let it be just the first hit of the F-Air. [ESC Artiste]
---
Ground F-Tilt: Moderate increase to projectile range (and possibly speed) to be able to stand against heavy projectile users. [ESC Artiste]
---
Roy:
---
Current F-Air Cancel Glitch: Roy's F-Air Cancel before doublejump causes him to lose his jump. Please fix.
---
F-Tilt: Allow Roy to activate his F-Tilt Projectile in midair with a slight increase in range.
---
ESC Artiste:
Roy:---
Aerial F-Tilt/C-Stick F-Air: Remove the automatic jump, and let it be just the first hit of the F-Air. [ESC Artiste]
The Aerial (C-Stick) F-Tilt is very annoying, as its automatic jump comes out too quick to follow up with something like a N-Air or D-Air. Instead Roy becomes wide open for your opponent to take advantage of the situation. It also doesn't help that it executes at various points when I don't want it to use it, especially when my fingers are moving so quickly in the middle of a match. To fix this, make it a 'C-Stick Only' move to avoid the unintentional Joystick inputs. I would also request taking out the jump, and make the Aerial F-Tilt just have the second hit cancelled completely. This could allow a follow-up into another Aerial, thus allowing Roy have more options in taking an aggressive approach. Hell, Roy could have a more aggressive version of the Ken Combo or something of the like. (Original Thread)
Apparently, Roy's Aerial F-Tilt isn't even that at all. It's Roy's first hit on his aerial, then automatically jump cancels without player input, as I said before. However, I just found that it can only be executed before Roy doublejumps, so it looks to be more of a glitch. Plus, when activated, the jump cancel is counted as a doublejump, meaning you can't execute anymore jumps afterwards, thus lead to some very bad SD's. This is obviously a big problem, and I am worried that it's not just Roy who has this glitch. So, my revision for my request is not only for the automatic jump cancel glitch to be taken out, but for the second hit of Roy's F-Air to be cancellable upon user input and not automatically.
Ground F-Tilt: Moderate increase to projectile range (and possibly speed) to be able to stand against heavy projectile users. [ESC Artiste]
Roy's F-Tilt on the ground is pretty good in terms of damage and multiple hitboxes. The problem is that he loses at least 75% or more against heavy projectile users like Samus, Toon Link, and Ness/Lucas (Link and Snake aren't too much of a hassle). Otherwise he has to resort to spacing with his other moves-all of which are specifically tailored to aggressive play. I could suggest maybe some increase in speed-though if the range was increased enough, along with the projectile already having multiple hitboxes,, it might not need it in the long run. Just increase the range of the projectile enough to make Roy decrease his lose rate to around 55-60% so it's not near one-sided towards the heavy projectile users-with a maybe in buffing the projectile's speed-and his F-Tilt would then be fine. (Original Thread)
Instead of having an automatic jump cancel for Roy, make it to where I can activate Roy's F-Tilt projectile in mid-air. His F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? This could negate the need to add speed to his F-Tilt, as the increased range and ability to use in mid-air will allow him to compete against heavy projectile users. In short, slightly but noticeably increase Roy's F-Tilt range, and make him be able to use his projectile in the air.
Roy:---
Current F-Air Cancel Glitch: Roy's F-Air Cancel before doublejump causes him to lose his jump. Please fix.
When tapping the joystick very quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward in midair before Roy's doublejump, Roy executes a jump cancel that not only trips up players, but also acts as the doublejump causing Roy to not have anymore jumps left, thus leading to unwanted SD's. By allowing the jump cancel to not only happen before, but also after the doublejump and have it not count as a jump, the glitch should be fixed.
F-Tilt: Allow Roy to activate his F-Tilt Projectile in midair with a slight increase in range.
Roy's F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? Also, increasing his projectile range slightly but noticeably could help in dealing with other projectile users and spacies. The increased range and ability to use the F-Tilt projectile in mid-air will allow him to at least stand firm in unfavorable matchups.
You want it reverted to the way it was in... 4.0b? 3.Q? Too busy to go check changelogs right now.
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player_03
P3
4.0b and all other patches before it.player_03: IIRC, Ike's Eruption charge being reset by landing is caused by the same glitch that causes Falcon's slow-motion "Instant" Falcon Punch. Something to do with landing Specials mid-move... Last time I asked about it, the Devs said they could not fix it.
ESC Artiste:
---
Aerial F-Tilt/C-Stick F-Air: Remove the automatic jump, and let it be just the first hit of the F-Air. [ESC Artiste]
The Aerial (C-Stick) F-Tilt is very annoying, as its automatic jump comes out too quick to follow up with something like a N-Air or D-Air. Instead Roy becomes wide open for your opponent to take advantage of the situation. It also doesn't help that it executes at various points when I don't want it to use it, especially when my fingers are moving so quickly in the middle of a match. To fix this, make it a 'C-Stick Only' move to avoid the unintentional Joystick inputs. I would also request taking out the jump, and make the Aerial F-Tilt just have the second hit cancelled completely. This could allow a follow-up into another Aerial, thus allowing Roy have more options in taking an aggressive approach. Hell, Roy could have a more aggressive version of the Ken Combo or something of the like. (Original Thread)---Apparently, Roy's Aerial F-Tilt isn't even that at all. It's Roy's first hit on his aerial, then automatically jump cancels without player input, as I said before. However, I just found that it can only be executed before Roy doublejumps, so it looks to be more of a glitch. Plus, when activated, the jump cancel is counted as a doublejump, meaning you can't execute anymore jumps afterwards, thus lead to some very bad SD's. This is obviously a big problem, and I am worried that it's not just Roy who has this glitch. So, my revision for my request is not only for the automatic jump cancel glitch to be taken out, but for the second hit of Roy's F-Air to be cancellable upon user input and not automatically.
Ground F-Tilt: Moderate increase to projectile range (and possibly speed) to be able to stand against heavy projectile users. [ESC Artiste]
Roy's F-Tilt on the ground is pretty good in terms of damage and multiple hitboxes. The problem is that he loses at least 75% or more against heavy projectile users like Samus, Toon Link, and Ness/Lucas (Link and Snake aren't too much of a hassle). Otherwise he has to resort to spacing with his other moves-all of which are specifically tailored to aggressive play. I could suggest maybe some increase in speed-though if the range was increased enough, along with the projectile already having multiple hitboxes,, it might not need it in the long run. Just increase the range of the projectile enough to make Roy decrease his lose rate to around 55-60% so it's not near one-sided towards the heavy projectile users-with a maybe in buffing the projectile's speed-and his F-Tilt would then be fine. (Original Thread)---Instead of having an automatic jump cancel for Roy, make it to where I can activate Roy's F-Tilt projectile in mid-air. His F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? This could negate the need to add speed to his F-Tilt, as the increased range and ability to use in mid-air will allow him to compete against heavy projectile users. In short, slightly but noticeably increase Roy's F-Tilt range, and make him be able to use his projectile in the air.
---
Current F-Air Cancel Glitch: Roy's F-Air Cancel before doublejump causes him to lose his jump. Please fix.
---When tapping the joystick very quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward in midair before Roy's doublejump, Roy executes a jump cancel that not only trips up players, but also acts as the doublejump causing Roy to not have anymore jumps left, thus leading to unwanted SD's. By allowing the jump cancel to not only happen before, but also after the doublejump and have it not count as a jump, the glitch should be fixed.
F-Tilt: Allow Roy to activate his F-Tilt Projectile in midair with a slight increase in range.
---Roy's F-Tilt can already be activated by tapping the joystick quickly or tapping the C-Stick forward. So, why not allow Roy to do this in mid air? Also, increasing his projectile range slightly but noticeably could help in dealing with other projectile users and spacies. The increased range and ability to use the F-Tilt projectile in mid-air will allow him to at least stand firm in unfavorable matchups.
You want it reverted to the way it was in... 4.0b? 3.Q? Too busy to go check changelogs right now.
sealedinterface
Member
A couple suggestions:
- Stages on the SSS should be strikable like in PM. This would allow stage banning to not have to resort to opening up the random stage selection screen, making it less of a hassle to play competitively. This way, people won't immediately dismiss Minus as "too casual", and grow the game's community a bit.
- Wolf's shine should stall in midair like Fox's. I noticed Wolf's shine doesn't stall him in midair like Fox's does. Is this leftover from vBrawl, or intentional? I don't play Wolf a whole lot, but his rather mediocre recovery is not helped by the fact that his fast-falling makes him need to recover immediately and predictably. A shine stall would give him a bit of a mixup in his recovery.
- Stages on the SSS should be strikable like in PM. This would allow stage banning to not have to resort to opening up the random stage selection screen, making it less of a hassle to play competitively. This way, people won't immediately dismiss Minus as "too casual", and grow the game's community a bit.
- Wolf's shine should stall in midair like Fox's. I noticed Wolf's shine doesn't stall him in midair like Fox's does. Is this leftover from vBrawl, or intentional? I don't play Wolf a whole lot, but his rather mediocre recovery is not helped by the fact that his fast-falling makes him need to recover immediately and predictably. A shine stall would give him a bit of a mixup in his recovery.
player_03
P3
This is very much intentional. Wolf's shine sends the opponent in the direction that Wolf is moving, so you can run off, fast fall, and drag your opponent down with you. Also, it presumably helps onstage by making it easier to follow up.
Are you sure about that?
Thor
Well-Known Member
Two things:
1) Fox shorthop height should definitely be reverted unless devs are okay with SH AC dair. Because then I think shine dair pressure is likely safe on literally the entire cast if executed correctly [SH AC dair shine SH AC dair shine etc.]. Oh and you can grab instead of shine after any dair for mixups, and waveshine around as well.
2) I liked future sight at first look, but I'm not sure of where to use it besides sometimes for edgeguarding, and I'm seeing a lot of complaints about the move. (This is probably because it's not exactly intuitive to use, and while those will leave with time if the move is good...) I have some ideas that are probably very hard to execute, but then thought of a potentially much simpler one [or not?] which is this: Could Mewtwo gain the ability to detonate Future Sight at will by pressing down+B again? In this way it'd be like a much shorter version of Snake's down+b [since it could still go off at the normal speed], and might make comboing into the move [or out of it] more practical.
Since I can't remember (and/or didn't check), is Future Sight only on a timer, or does it automatically go off if an opponent touches it [like Snake mines]? If it's the former, implementing the latter may also be a buff idea [assuming the dev team is willing to buff the move].
1) Fox shorthop height should definitely be reverted unless devs are okay with SH AC dair. Because then I think shine dair pressure is likely safe on literally the entire cast if executed correctly [SH AC dair shine SH AC dair shine etc.]. Oh and you can grab instead of shine after any dair for mixups, and waveshine around as well.
2) I liked future sight at first look, but I'm not sure of where to use it besides sometimes for edgeguarding, and I'm seeing a lot of complaints about the move. (This is probably because it's not exactly intuitive to use, and while those will leave with time if the move is good...) I have some ideas that are probably very hard to execute, but then thought of a potentially much simpler one [or not?] which is this: Could Mewtwo gain the ability to detonate Future Sight at will by pressing down+B again? In this way it'd be like a much shorter version of Snake's down+b [since it could still go off at the normal speed], and might make comboing into the move [or out of it] more practical.
Since I can't remember (and/or didn't check), is Future Sight only on a timer, or does it automatically go off if an opponent touches it [like Snake mines]? If it's the former, implementing the latter may also be a buff idea [assuming the dev team is willing to buff the move].