Announcing Brawl Minus 4.0!

[Pin Clock]

I'm happy to finally be able to officially reveal and shed some light on the next version of Brawl Minus, Brawl Minus 4.0!

New version, new logo.

This isn't just some balance patch, or just a bug fix, as there will also be a lot of changes in Brawl Minus 4.0. Characters once considered strong are now tougher, as the overall scale of power has increased, and on top of that, everyone gets some new tricks to work with!

Here is just a little taste of some of the changes that will be upcoming in Brawl Minus 4.0!

Spoiler

Brawl Minus 4.0 Official Changelog (Preview version)

Wifi Code readded
Footstool code removed
We had tried working with many variations of this code, but no matter what we ended up doing, it would always cause wifi desynchs. Ultimately we had to cut our losses and take out the code for the sake of online play with far fewer desynchs.

Mario
Firebrand
When landing while using this move, it would go straight into his standing animation. It now goes into the grounded version of Firebrand.

Peach
dAir
Hold A to give the final hit a meteor effect

Link
Ending Blow removed and replaced with a modified Jump Strike

fSmash
Forward Smash now functions as it did in Brawl Minus 2.x.6.
That is to say, the move works the same as it does in vBrawl, but packed with Brawl Minus power!

Zelda
Transform
Zelda now has all the transform cancels in the air that she does on the ground.

Ganondorf
Dash Attack
Ganondorf now has a new attack if you hold A whle dash attacking, called the Gerudo Dragon, named after his side special in Melee.
It comes out the same speed as his normal dash attack, but works better for ground-to-air combos than his normal dash attack. However, this attack doesn't have the Super Armor his normal dash attack does, so be careful when using it!

Toon Link
Arrows
Arrows are now set to a 15 second timer, and will disappear when those 15 seconds are up.
Light Arrow chances reworked to be more consistent
Fire and Ice arrow chances have changed: They are now 50/50

Samus
Screw Attack
Is now her third strongest KO move

Kirby
Final Cutter
Can now grab the edge from behind

Copy Ability
Various copy abilities been improved to make them feel more worth obtaining
More details to come later

Stone
The strange electric hitbox at the end of the move has been removed

Meta Knight
uTaunt
Removed a vBrawl related bone glitch that caused MK to have a really tall vertical hurtbox

fSmash charge
Removed a vBrawl related bone glitch that caused MK to have a really tall vertical hurtbox

uThrow
Damage dealt to both Meta Knight and his opponent have been reduced from 45%-25%
When MK was normalized back in 3.01 (also known as MAX 1.01), the damage for this move was never altered to match Meta Knight's damage capabilities. Now an MK in the lead will have to give a little more of a fight before making this move his go-to.

King Dedede
King Dedede is already perfect, so he does not need to recieve changes

Olimar
Fixed a coding error that caused freezes

Wolf
Wolf Lasers
Laser speed reverted to normal

Wolf Flash
Will no longer go into special fall at the end of the move
Non-cancelled version has endlag long enough to keep Wolf Flash stalling from being a thing

Captain Falcon
uSmash
SDI modifiers adjusted so the move can no longer be escaped from in between hits

Pikachu
Dash Attack
Knockback properties chanced to launch enemies a short distance above Pikachu
Jump Cancellable on-hit

Pichu
Most self-damage removed
Will only hurt himself with his Smash attacks if they miss
On all of his aerials except uAir, you can hold A for different effects at the cost of self-damage
Can now heal on crouch
More details on these changes to come later

Squirtle
Water Gun
Quickly tapping B regardless of Water Gun charge will now allow you to use Icy Wind at any time

Jigglypuff
Amount of jumps restored to 6

uAir
Reverted to 2.x.6 with a slight change in angle
This is to restore the move's upwards knockback while preventing the key flaw of 2.x.6 Jigglypuff: uAir uAir uAir Rest

dAir
Reverted to 2.x.6

Ness
fAir reverted to 3.5, fixing the move not being able to chain properly

Lucas
uSmash
Shield damage increased by 10

Mr. Game & Watch
dAir
Melee dAir added on tapA
Tap dAir to use the dAir Mr. Game & Watch used back in Melee! Now you can have your momentum and your Down Air! At the same time, the longer this dAir is out, the less power it has, but it is by no means weak. The Brawl Version can still be used if you hold down dAir, and will retain its full power for the entire duration of the move.

Sonic
Homing Attack
Is now non-clangable

Valentine's Day Update!

Spoiler

Brawl Minus 4.0 Preview changelog V2

GLOBAL
Character Icons on the CSS will be re-organized, to fix mistakes such as Marth not being with Ike and Roy, among other things
In addition to this, the character icons themselves will be completely new.
New Minus artwork for certain characters
Characters that could use attacks out of specialfall animation, such as Meta Knight and Pichu, will no longer go into SpecialFall in the first place, but will still have a limited amount of uses on said moves in the air.
The vBrawl version of the game will no longer have Minus Battle Portraits
The Minus version of the game will now have Minus portraits on the results screen
The Minus version of the game will now have the silly win/loss animations from 2.x.6, where as the vBrawl version will not.

Characters

Ganondorf
uTilt
Reverted to Brawl Minus 3.5
What's some weak thunder magic compared to a STAGE-WIDE GROUND HITBOX

dSmash
Reverted to Brawl Minus 3.5
The dSmash in 3.Q not only reduced a lot of Ganon's tech game, and was an awkward adjustment for Ganon to make. This reversion fixes to birds with one stone.

Ice Climbers
Hammer Squal
Grab Cancel Changed to Jump Cancel

Solo Belay
Now grants you as much height as it did in 2.x.6

Ike
No Sympathy Mode is once again being taken back to the drawing board. From how to achieve NSM to its primary functions, Ike in Brawl Minus 4.0 is going to be a completely different monster. Look forward to learning more about him soon. Oh, and for one more Ike related bonus...

Eruption
Ike will once again be able to store his charge for Eruption.

Kirby
As mentioned earlier, Kirby's copy abilities are going to have their powers made stronger than ever! Here's a few examples:

Diddy: Peanut Popgun Explosion is now much more powerful
Fox: Kirby can now airdodge anytime during this move
Falco: Jump Cancel Added
Jigglypuff: Start-up speed increased to match Jigglypuff's
Ice Climbers: Kirby now launches 2 Icicles instead of just one.
Meta Knight: Tornado is now cancellable into aerials.
Samus: Uncharged shots now stun foes
Sheik: Kirby's needles now explode like hers does
Toon Link: Kirby can now use all Elemental Arrows, rather than just Fire
Wario: Kirby can now hold his mouth open for as long as Wario can. (That is to say, 1 minute)
Zelda: Kirby can now move while using Nyaru's Love the same way Zelda can.

Meta Knight
Meta Knight in Minus 4.0 will be based on Meta Knight in Brawl Minus MAX, who dishes out moves that don't deal much damage, but have much more notable knockback. He has also had his power adjusted in certain places, so he won't be "dAir the character" like he was in MAX. More to come soon.

Mr. Game & Watch
Chef
Chef has been reworked. Rather than mashing to shoot projectiles endlessly, he can now shoot out several projectiles in a single burst. These projectiles also retain more momentum when moving with Game & Watch.
Chef projectiles no longer hurt Mr. Game & Watch
Mr. Game & Watch can no longer absorb Chef projectiles

Taunt
At the end of each of his taunts, Mr. Game & Watch adds one projectile to his Oil Panic Bucket, as indicated by a flash.

Pichu
Almost all of pichu's moves have been changed in some way or form, giving Pichu a lot of brand new tricks up his metaphorical sleeve. He now has a side special that functions much like MAX Olimar's self toss, as well as having his up special changed to a single dash that's shorter, but much much faster to execute and can be used multiple times in the air without leaving Pichu in special fall, giving Pichu the approaches and chasing ability he was sorely in need of. By far the biggest change is that Pichu can hold the attack or special button for his aerials, smashes, and specials, taking self damage to gain new, powerful abilities. For instance, if Pichu uses his down-special and quickly releases the b-button he'll generate a fast thunderbolt that launches foes upwards, does fairly low damage, and can be cancelled into other moves. But if Pichu holds the b-button he'll instead generate a massive explosion with a small but incredibly powerful sweetspot, taking heavy self damage in the process. Overall we think the new Pichu offers a ton of room for creative and skillful play, and we're really excited to for people to experiment and see what the new Pichu can do! More to come soon!

Pikachu
bAir
You can now cancel bAir 4 frames earlier (from frame 12-8)

Charizard
fAir
fAir will now always knock foes away in the direction Charizard is facing.

R.O.B.
nAir
The hold nAir will be returning in MAX 4.0, but with modified properties
Out of all of the overpowered tools R.O.B. has lost over the last several versions, when looking back this one feels like it would have benefited more from a revision and rebalancing rather than an outright removal.

SideB (Arm Rotor)
R.O.B.Dash removed
While silly, the ROB Dash had some major problems within: Doing it accidentally got you killed when you didn't want to die, and doing it on purpose would usually mean ROB doesn't die but bounce from one side of the screen to the other, giving him a free recovery and completely preventing ROB from being chased.

Samus
Samus has been redesigned to take advantage of features from 2.x.6 and Brawl Minus 3.Q. More details to come!

Sonic
Boost
Boost is being redesigned to function similarly to Palutena's Super Speed in Smash 4, but faster. Much faster.
The hitbox will be restored on the move
Boost will have a 3 second cooldown period where Sonic cannot use Boost again.

Toon Link
Arrows
Arrows now have a 15 second timer
This does two things: Encourages TL to focus on hitting foes more than scattering arrows, and allow foes without much of an answer to eternal arrows get around them. All in all, this change should speed up the pace a little

Wolf
Special Fall now has a little more horizontal momentum, aiding in your recovery

STAGES
Norfair has been readded as an alternate stage to Lavaville. Hold shield while choosing Lavaville to go to Norfair instead!

Rumble Falls
Platforms WAAAAAAAAY DOWN BELOW the stage have been removed to fix an error involving the Ice Climbers

That's all for now, but there will also be much more exciting news that will be revealed when it's ready, as we have plenty still in production. When there is more news, it will be posted in this thread and the OP will be updated.

See you soon!

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

rip dbz purin mirrors

 

[Thor]

I fear for Falco's sake. And for ROB's side+b.

The rest I think ranges anywhere from "looks cool-ish" to "meh". I kinda wish Jiggs could've kept more than 6 jumps (maybe just 8?) but whatever.

 

[NEWB]

I'm super excited!!!

She really didn't need that many jumps.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Yay Ness buff. No Ike changes though, but I'm happy with that. The only Ike change I want to see is making Razing Eruption unblockable. Seriously, if you let Ike have the time to prepare the move and you still are on the ground and get hit by it, you deserve to die.

 

[NEWB]

It's kind of a stupid thing to be needing to look out for. But I'm the only one that's against razing eruption.

These aren't all the changes.

 

[justadood]

sounds interesting ^^ i can't wait to see more!!

 

[Greatest_Aether]

It's kind of a stupid thing to be needing to look out for. But I'm the only one that's against razing eruption.

These aren't all the changes.

I know. I'm just saying that I think it's stupid that you can shield the Razing Eruption dash, then jump or run away from the Eruptions.

 

[NEWB]

Not really... It only exists as a way for ike to exit NS mode and to be cool. They deserve to get hit if they where to troubled to not shield or dodge the first hit.

But again, I just don't like razing eruption. I happen to think it's dumb since it isn't a cannon attack as far as I'm aware. I like new minusy moves like aetherial eruption, causing aether and eruption to chain but I don't like it when characters get stuff they never had.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Then I guess all Pokemon need to be changed to have only 4 attacks, and only ones they can learn. Attack button disabled, B only, limited uses per stock. And Dorf needs to be removed cause he has none of those attacks canonically. And Mario's cape needs to be reworked to function as it did in Mario World.

You see why that argument doesn't work? Lol

 

[Greatest_Aether]

If we made everything canon, Ike would have no vertical recovery, he'd have a projectile, he and people like Marth, Ness and Lucas would have to take turns attacking, Ike would have lose his Eruption and Quick Draw and his Counter would work different, etc. I see what you mean by giving people canon attacks like Link's Hidden Skills and such, but I also really like how creative the team can be in giving them non-canon moves and skills like Ike's NSM.

 

[Bent 00]

Awesome, glad to see a new update is in the works.

Any chance elements from my "Safe Flying Warlock Punch" tweak will be included, like the upwards momentum and flub hitboxes?

Sad to see the footstool code go. You should ask to borrow the Project M taunts = footstool code. It maps footstools to taunts without hardcoding to specific buttons like Glitch's code does, and it doesn't desync online. I asked standardtoaster already -- he said we'd have to ask Magus, the code creator.

Last of all: two new taunts for Snake, please! And remove that turbo fist pump from his Side B.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Nah man turbo fist pump is beautiful.

 

[Mawootad]

I fear for Falco's sake. And for ROB's side+b.

No guarantees, but I actually wouldn't be too concerned for Falco, and if possible ROB's side b will keep most of what made it fun without being quite so frustrating to play against.

 

[NEWB]

You guys misunderstand me... I never said that everything in this game should be canon. I just said that I like all the new attacks we got that involve cancels and such. Link got hidden skill attacks but then ike gets razing eruption which is giving power for the sake of whatever because he clearly didn't have power before.

Thing is, I'm sort of blurring the arguement. What's got me most annoyed is that taunts are supposed to be useless when we suggest stuff but when the devs want to do something they aren't. Then they insist on not allowing taunts to do anything. Ike didn't get an existing move tweaked, he just gained an entirely new attack on a whim and that bugs me.

 

[Thor]

Awesome, glad to see a new update is in the works.

Any chance elements from my "Safe Flying Warlock Punch" tweak will be included, like the upwards momentum and flub hitboxes?

Sad to see the footstool code go. You should ask to borrow the Project M taunts = footstool code. It maps footstools to taunts without hardcoding to specific buttons like Glitch's code does, and it doesn't desync online. I asked standardtoaster already -- he said we'd have to ask Magus, the code creator.

Last of all: two new taunts for Snake, please! And remove that turbo fist pump from his Side B.

I don't like PM's taunts = footstools to be honest...I wish we could find a way to code it to two separate inputs to be honest, since I vastly prefer using jump to footstool, but I do understand the argument to code it to uptaunt (since I generally play as Falco, the punishment for whiffing a footstool is pretty small).

Excited to see Pichu getting actual buffs. Keeping the homage to Melee sounds fine, since it's not overblown this time.

No guarantees, but I actually wouldn't be too concerned for Falco, and if possible ROB's side b will keep most of what made it fun without being quite so frustrating to play against.

I really only fear for Falco's reflector and side+B to be honest - I can't seem them nerfing much else on him (or if they nerf dair's hitbox angles, then I guess the backroom just went insane, but I'm pretty sure most people understand why dair acts as it does now enough to not do that).

 

[Neville]

I hope Kien's entire Peach makes it into 4.0. It's so beautiful.

 

[Kien]

Link got hidden skill attacks but then ike gets razing eruption which is giving power for the sake of whatever because he clearly didn't have power before.

Thing is, I'm sort of blurring the arguement. What's got me most annoyed is that taunts are supposed to be useless when we suggest stuff but when the devs want to do something they aren't. Then they insist on not allowing taunts to do anything. Ike didn't get an existing move tweaked, he just gained an entirely new attack on a whim and that bugs me.

I could blow this so far out of proportion, but instead I'll just say what if we changed that?

 

[Greatest_Aether]

I could blow this so far out of proportion, but instead I'll just say what if we changed that?

Then my hype levels would explode.

Did Pin ever say when the new release was coming?

 

[NEWB]

I would honestly prefer it weren't there. The problem with Ike, ever since NS mode, is that for some reason they rebalanced Ike for minus then they gave him NS mode which was supposed to not be the main focus of his playstyle, refered to as icing on the cake but you guys keep giving people reasons to abuse NS mode instead of just playing Ike. Ike is practically perfect on his own but NS mode is constantly being worked on for some reason, even though Ike is pretty much done. Instead of constantly piling on stuff for ike, other characters should be more improved.

Granted, this update is going to be big, so you guys may have already done that. I obviously can't tell the devs who to work on.

 

[Kien]

Then my hype levels would explode.

Did Pin ever say when the new release was coming?

Don't explode your hypometer just yet. You need to save it for later. As for the release, that's for Pin to say, not I.

I would honestly prefer it weren't there.

What if it weren't there?

 

[NEWB]

I'm not quite sure, since it does technically serve a function. It's one way you can exit NS mode as ike. Thing is, you technicaly shouldn't ever have to exit NS mode. It's technically possible to play as normal and not get hit. And quite frankly it should be simple enough to use it with counter or aether as they are easy to land. Heck, you could even just taunt to ditch NS mode.

The weird thing with NS mode is that it rewards you for doing well. NS mode is a reward in and of itself but we have people who would rather have no reward that gives self damage to ike, so ike was given super attacks to end NS mode.

But now that I think about it, NS mode kinda seems all wrong to me. It takes 75% damage dealt by his sword to enter NS mode. Ike has basically just did a zero to death combo and then gets rewarded handsomely. Doesn't that concept seem completely off to you? The reward should be that you are now up a stock for playing well, like with every other character.

Edit: Can everyone get a NS mode? It's doesn't have to be ike exclusive but that would be a cooler thing to do than to remove it on ike.

 

[Bent 00]

No Sympathy Mode is fine. I don't see anyone complaining about Lucario's Aura, which is very similar.

Razing Eruption is great, too. If anything, I'd like to see more "super moves" like that, not less!

Thor, if we got permission to use Magus's taunts = footstool code, we could just leave out the part that disables footstools via Jump inputs.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Don't explode your hypometer just yet. You need to save it for later.

OMG COLE MACGRATH CONFIRMED

No Sympathy Mode is fine. I don't see anyone complaining about Lucario's Aura, which is very similar.

Razing Eruption is great, too. If anything, I'd like to see more "super moves" like that, not less!

Thor, if we got permission to use Magus's taunts = footstool code, we could just leave out the part that disables footstools via Jump inputs.

Fully agree with this guy.

 

[justadood]

I'm not quite sure, since it does technically serve a function. It's one way you can exit NS mode as ike. Thing is, you technicaly shouldn't ever have to exit NS mode. It's technically possible to play as normal and not get hit. And quite frankly it should be simple enough to use it with counter or aether as they are easy to land. Heck, you could even just taunt to ditch NS mode.

The weird thing with NS mode is that it rewards you for doing well. NS mode is a reward in and of itself but we have people who would rather have no reward that gives self damage to ike, so ike was given super attacks to end NS mode.

But now that I think about it, NS mode kinda seems all wrong to me. It takes 75% damage dealt by his sword to enter NS mode. Ike has basically just did a zero to death combo and then gets rewarded handsomely. Doesn't that concept seem completely off to you? The reward should be that you are now up a stock for playing well, like with every other character.

I understand where you're coming from, but the new mode you enter is something I believe makes Ike a very strong example of how a fighting game could have been to begin with. A lot of people prefer playing without smashballs, but that punishes characters who fall short normally and have no way to gain that finisher that they were built to be mobile enough to grab.. with this method, no matter whether the smashball is on or off, characters with other methods to get finishers would be able to "build their meters" as if it really was an allusion to other fighting games, and be able to release these seemingly overwhelming attacks after taking a hard beating without going down or giving a perfect beating and getting ready to tie up the match. I think maybe it should require more work to get, or maybe need a taunt to activate once you've gotten the damage out, but more characters could use these flurries and big finishers in their arsenals

Edit: Can everyone get a NS mode? It's doesn't have to be ike exclusive but that would be a cooler thing to do than to remove it on ike.

^Yes... all of my yes...

actually, i think each character could get finisher versions of each special move or transformations... like a mini final smash dependant on each of their 4 special moves that uses up that meter.. and if not 4 each, then they should have as many as we can come up with:
Mario: star mode?.. doesn't last as long as normal star, but hurts foes you pass through... super fireball (already in, but maybe fire flower mode as final smash and make fireball mini finisher that ends it or something), metal mode, giant mode, cape mode, fludd mode, etc.
DK: super giant punch, barrel blast pad (like the DK launch pads from DK 64), ground smash that hits everyone, barrel throwing, maybe coconut gun that fires in spurts, that if it shoots ya, it's gonna hurt?
Link: maybe wolf mode?, light sword (from twilight princess) that shoots beams, different "hidden skill" based triforce slash that ends with finishing blow... maybe a light arrow or bomb arrows or something, or maybe something with the clawshots
Samus: freeze missiles or other missiles, super bomb that has way bigger range, not as big, but like how it was used to clear enemies on the screen, and all air attacks do a screw attack (like wario man floating) for a time, like that grav suit... maybe spider ball could be in there somewhere too, or maybe light beams...
Kirby: sucks in everyone on the stage and THEN does cooking kirby from catching everyone at once, final cutter (up b inspired, like the mega sword from return to dreamland), final hammer (side b styled, like the mega hammer from return to dreamland), and maybe a cool made up really huge "final stone"
Pikachu: Discharge, inspired by the blue spark from his down b, but reaches a lot farther, with reducing damage the further from the center, with chance to do hit stun that lets you land another hit before they fly... volt tackle THAT ACTUALLY TACKLES (side B styled, you miss you might die, but it's OHKO with "recoil")... or maybe just "wild charge, which also has recoil, but is an electric tackle that does a lot of damage, and then his regular side B is more like "spark", and has a little electric flag and maybe hit stun on a sweetspot.... Thunder BOLT (instead of thunder shock) which moves faster and does a lot more damage and stuns
Fox: super G difuser?.. Zeus made him pause time, witch according to the technology behind how his G-diffuser works should make that possible.. only other one i can think of is either a super charged laser from his rifle, like in assault, or maybe smartbomb assaults or something...
Marth: i don't know what i loved the way his side B combo was in Zeus, and a fully charged shield breaker could make sense... maybe also make his counter do a cool combo, we can pretend his final smash is a horizontal version of the dolphin slash, and just give his up B some way to do a critical hit, without being quite that OP.
Game n' Watch: .... ....Ok, I'm at a loss here x_x ...actually, if his frying pan made a lot of food rain down, like the level and the game, and he did a strong hit around his body when he caught them, that could be interesting... other than that, and maybe an oil panic that is a kill move and makes everone who lands on the oil slip and slide, I really don't think i can come up with anything else