Speaking of Custom Builds

Glyph

Glyph

Moderator
First things first, this is of course in no way an official build of minus. This is my vision of the direction Minus should be moving in, which takes the best of the best from versions 2.x.6 through the current 3.5. Its taken a lot of free time to get this whole thing operational, so please give it a shot and let me know what you think!

http://www.mediafire.com/download/gl890b9gvz474g3/Brawl_Minus_X.0.zip

The whole version is built off of 2.x.6 as a base, down to the classic minus portraits on the CSS. Roughly half of the cast has been reverted to their 2.x.6 versions as well, generally because the older version tended to be much truer to the vBrawl character they're supposed to be built off of. The end result is a very high powered roster and what I personally feel to be a purer Minus experience.

2.x.6
C. Falcon
Diddy
Fox
G&W
Ike
Link
Lucas
Luigi
Mario
Ness
Peach
Jigglypuff
Samus
Sonic
ZSS
TL
Wario
Yoshi

Max 1.0
D3
DK
Lucario
MK
Ivysaur
Squirtle

Max 1.01
Zelda
Sheik

Max 3.3
Ganon
Bowser
Kirby
Marth
Falco
ICs
ROB
Pikachu
Olimar
Snake

Max 3.5
Charizard
Pit
Wolf

There are a number of characters (like Lucas or Sonic) who's version I was completely clueless as to which I should include. If there's any character who you think would be better represented by a build I'm not currently using I would very much love to hear your ideas and try to get this roster to its maximum potential.


But that's not the only change I've made. Characters are only half of the gameplay experience, the other being good ol' stages! This build boasts the most expansive legal stagelist ever in a Minus build, with 9 neutral stage and a whopping 22 counterpicks. A solid amount of previously banned stages and even some counterpicks have been reworked by Tybis into much more balanced versions, as well as some other stages completely new to minus.

Beyond that, I've worked the SSS's first page to hold every legal stage in the game. The top two rows contain all the neutral stages, and the remaining four rows house the counterpicks. Page 2 of the stages is still being worked on, but will be more casual but still fun stages such as Traditional Temple and Venus Lighthouse.

Neutrals - 9 (5-4)
Battlefield
Final Destination
Smashville
Yoshi's Island
Pokemon Stadium 2-
Shadow Moses Island
Lylat Cruise
Luigi's Mansion
Spear Pillar

Counterpicks - 22 (6-5-6-5)
Delphino
Rumble Falls
Frigate Orphion
Halberd
Norfair
Port Town-
Castle Siege
Wario Ware
Skyworld
1337 M
Green Hill Zone-
Temple
Yoshi's Story
Dream Greens
Fountain of Dreams
Pokemon Stadium 1
Mushroom Kingdom-
Great Desert
Kongo Jungle
Lavender Town
Forest Maze
Summit

Something you'll probably notice right away is that none of the new characters have been included in this version, and that's for good reason. While I personally am a fan of some of the new characters, BrawlEx has proven to give my own wii a number of crashes since its introduction to Minus. While its possible this issue is localized to only myself, I would find it very odd that my wii alone suffered numerous problems from its inclusion. So, for the sake of a build that will run consistently every time I opted to remove the whole thing. The SEP was cut for similar reasons, and especially in this version as we have a ton of legal stages to play with anyway. Which leads me to my next subject...

Stage Veto System
Thanks to such a massive counterpick pool, traditional Stage Striking methods become much too tedious to be effective. To get a stagelist down to a manageable size, both players would end up needing to do 7+ Strikes each, which is massively time consuming.

Luckily, the solution to this is very simple. Rather than getting stages banned before the match can begin at all, a Veto System will allow banning to progress much more quickly and effectively. For the sake of clarity, I'm going to walk through the steps of how a set would be played in this new format.

**Each player has a total of 5 vetoes to be used over the course of a set, regardless of whether its 2/3 or 3/5.

-Each player bans 3 neutral stages
-Game 1 is played decided at random out of the three remaining neutrals
-Loser of Game 1 chooses any of the remaining 22 counterpick stages or 2 neutral stages
-The other player can either opt to accept that stage and continue to Game 2, or instead can veto that stage. If a veto is used, the choosing player picks a second stage and the process repeats. No more than three vetoes can be used for one game of the set.
-Game 2 is played on the agreed upon stage
-If the set has not ended, the loser of Game 2 picks his/her counterpick and the veto system kicks back into play. This cycle continues until the set comes to an end.

Keep in mind, once a stage has been vetoed that stage is banned for the duration of the set. You won't be able to try to counterpick to any one stage more than once.

Ok, well this is a hefty post as is so I'm going to go ahead and bring it to a close here. Special thanks to Tybis and Glitch for their help in getting everything figured out, hope you guys like the end result as much as I do!

EDIT: Known bugs so far are as follows:
-Trying to edit Battlefield's Music causes a hard crash
-Castle Siege freezes when loading the third section of the stage.
 
Bent 00

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Looks like a good build at first glance. I'll try it out soon. :)

Why do you have 3.3 'Dorf over MAX 1.01 'Dorf, though? Didn't like Warlock Punches getting reflected?

Try the custom 3.5 'Dorf in my sig if you like -- I'd appreciate your feedback.

Note: It might only work with 3.5; I haven't tested it in older versions.
 
Pin Clock

Pin Clock

Project Leader
Minus Backroom
Bent 00 said:
Try the custom 3.5 'Dorf in my sig if you like -- I'd appreciate your feedback.
Click to expand...

Please stop advertising this in every single thread. This thread is for Glyph's build in specific.

I'm curious as to your reasoning for choosing which version for which character, Glyph.
 
NEWB

NEWB

Well-Known Member
Glyph probably picked versions that either felt closer to their vbrawl playstyle or simply because he liked him.

I like using what the game at its current stage, but this does give some fruit for thought.
 
Glyph

Glyph

Moderator
Pin Clock said:
I'm curious as to your reasoning for choosing which version for which character, Glyph.
Click to expand...

I'm on my phone so bear with me for any weird grammar or spelling. I'm going to touch on a few that I'm guessing would be the ones people would ask about more often.

- Mario - Far and beyond my biggest reason for going back to an older Mario was to get around the nerds made to Metal Mario. MM was the spice that took a very standard and flavorless moveset and made it dynamic and viable at the same time. As an added bonus, the return of his older dash attack means the obnoxious dash attack into any smash attack mechanic is also not available.

- Link - Practically the poster child for returning to a build more in line with the Brawl part of Brawl Minus. The majority of Link's changes throughout max's life have been changes not to address a problem with Link but rather changes for the sake of changing things. While many of these ARE very effective or cool, they don't mesh well with the Link I see from vBrawl. Aside from those moves, Link's bomb pull is slowed back down, helping shift his game's focus from 'keep away and blow things up' to a healthier focus on his anti-air game and massive damage output.

- Ness - Ness is reverted for literally just his Dair. The latest version has a tendency to linger longer than is welcome, making it easier than intended to punish rolls or land spikes in unexpected ways.

- Jigglypuff - Jigglypuff is one of the changes I'm most happy with. This build feels -right-, moves hit the way you're used to, movement is natural, and Jiggs all around is a scarier opponent. The biggest issue I had always heard with Jiggs was that uair could combo into rest, which IS possible. If you can set it up at a low enough percentage, you can combo it upwards for a KO even. This is not a bad thing. It is not a simple matter to get this combo set up thanks to Jiggs strengths being low to the ground but still in the air, and its not impossible for an opponent to DI out before the rest connects. Like many of the versions I've included, she's very powerful but not unbeatable.

- Samus - Samus is one of the more unique characters in recent minus history where the older version is blatantly better than newer iterations. I know bombs have been a subject of heavy debate, but thus far I've had no luck in seeing how the older ones are toxic or too strong in any way. Of course I am not implying that these bombs are not very very useful, but when the net gain for landing one is around 5% and a small knockup it really doesn't strike me as anything that needs to be fiddled with.

- D3 - The more I've played with and against D3 the more I've realized the ftilt that hits away is just better for D3 when his focus is so heavy on his minions. This one was a pretty easy decision once it came down to it.

- MK - Back to the old build with very low damage output but an unreal KO potential at any time. This MK might be problematic in teams, but when there is zero teams scene for minus there is no reason to hinder a fantastic singles character.

- Ganon - Ganon shouldn't have a cancel on his punch in any instance.

- ROB - I still need to go in and remove the second gyro from this version, but otherwise this ROB is already eclipsed by a number of characters in this version.

- Falco - When I was first drafting this up I was sure I was going to be using the 2.x.6 version of Falco. The logic behind it was simple enough, Falco is all about lasers and slow lasers are worse than fast ones. Pretty cut and dry, until i tried it in action. Old Falco doesn't have anywhere near the mobility the newer one has thanks to the jump cancel on grounded side-b. When it gets down to it, I'd much rather have a Falco focused on hit and run play than one where he shoots his gun at you for eight minutes.


Those are the ones I child think of off the top of my head, but if there's any others you guys are wondering about let me know and I'll get it clarified for you ASAP
 
Glyph

Glyph

Moderator
Honestly if I knew how to take them off myself I would have, but its not unplayable with them on. They're actually kind of neat once you get used to them.
 
Thor

Thor

Well-Known Member
Is Falco's firebird trash, or the current one? I might download if the firebird is not the barely-better-than-vBrawl firebird, but if it is, then no, I'm done. And are you saying slow lasers are less useful? I think one is pure camping (not a bad thing), and the other is "I'm gonna f you up with lasers to your shield for a grab or lasers to your face to dair to smash attack to more if low percents" which I think is just plain awesome. But I dunno...
 
Kien

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
I'll see where this goes. I would recommend you take the 3.5 Sonic, 3.Q Lucario, and 3.5 Toon Link.
 
Glyph

Glyph

Moderator
I'm probably not going to bother with this anymore, smash4 is right around the corner and my interest in brawl minus has really taken a steep decline in the past few weeks. Too much arguing over really dumb stuff.
 
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