Pikachu's forward smash

[Thor]

@Pin Clock

A while back, Pikachu could angle fsmash for multi-hit OR use the vBrawl single burst [with Minus power]. However, it was changed with the reasoning "there was no reason not to use the multi-hit verison".

I disagree. Multiple times I've gone for a read with fsmash and my opponent has SDI'd out of fsmash to avoid the last hit, when fsmash's last hit would have KO'd. I would very much like single hit fsmash back, either as a non-angled version, an angled version, or to replace the multi-hit variant entirely.

I'm also aware that current fsmash has very interesting shield damage properties - if fsmash was single-hit, this would fix that problem instantly.

Any thoughts, feedback, etc. are appreciated as usual, but unlike other threads where I can argue but accept changes, etc., I will be EXTREMELY annoyed if nothing is done to fix the problem of SDIing out of Pikachu's fsmash [and will likely push very, very hard to either revert it to angled/non-angled, only single hit, or remove SDI on fsmash], because it currently is worse for securing KOs, since SDIing out will avoid the KO, AND Pikachu already has an SDIable smash attack called dsmash.

P.S: If the original reasoning was "we want to nerf fsmash by always allowing SDI out", then ok, but the original reason was "we want to buff Pikachu" and the opposite has happened [outside of rather rare shieldbreak setups, which aren't what you'd normally use fsmash for anyway]. The dev team somehow achieved the opposite effect of what they implied they wanted, which is why I so adamantly want back a single-hit or non-SDIable version of fsmash.

 

[Gold_TSG]

It should work like most multi-hit moves do in smash 4 imo: less SDIable.

 

[Pin Clock]

You mixed up Pikachu with Lucario, I believe.

 

[Thor]

You mixed up Pikachu with Lucario, I believe.

Double check 3.Q. Fsmash is multi-hitting on Pikachu as of 3.Q. I know I've attempted to break shields with it several times in 3.Q (the shield damage output is absurd because single-hit fsmash shield damage appeared to have been applied to every single hit of Pikachu's multi-hitting replacement). If you accidentally play-tested 4.0 and found it was single-hit, I'm glad the patch has been made, but I know for certain that Pikachu's 3.Q fsmash is multi-hitting and SDIable (or else I am very, VERY unfortunate to have multiple people pop out of a supposedly non-SDIable move).

This issue also exists with Lucario, but I don't play Lucario as much, and Lucario has this issue only over 75%. Probably worth fixing that too though.

Also here is 3.Q gameplay footage showing Pikachu's fsmash is multi-hit (see 0:55 - hits multiple times for 17% - I do manage to land just the final hit at the end of the fight [around 2:15], but that was luck)

It should work like most multi-hit moves do in smash 4 imo: less SDIable.

It may be less SDIable the same way stuff is in Smash 4, but it still is SDIable, and that's annoying when Pikachu used to have a single-hit variant that always did what you wanted it to. I have had people SDI out which is why I bring the issue up.

Or if you are suggesting this change, I'd approve of it. I'd still honestly prefer it being just a single, hard-hiting blow like in every smash game to date, but it would at least help.

 

[Gold_TSG]

I'm suggesting the change to less SDI, similarly to how his fair functions in smash 4. You basically can't escape once it connects.

 

[NEWB]

So....should all multi hitting moves just get the smash 4 treatment?

 

[Mawootad]

In 3.Q (and currently also in 4.0) Pikachu's fsmash has 0 sdi on the linking hits, and I'm pretty sure Falcon did get hit by the full fsmash at 0:55 in the listed video (he didn't get knocked back very far because he was hit at 0%).

 

[Thor]

In 3.Q (and currently also in 4.0) Pikachu's fsmash has 0 sdi on the linking hits, and I'm pretty sure Falcon did get hit by the full fsmash at 0:55 in the listed video (he didn't get knocked back very far because he was hit at 0%).

Yes he got hit by it but that's not what I was showing it for, I was showing it to tell Pin that Pikachu's fsmash is multi-hit.

I think I should reframe this. I'm not asking for a buff or nerf to something. I'm asking for a bugfix. I have seen multiple people pop out of the fsmash [I myself have tried to madly SDI it and avoided the final hit]. My theory is that even with SDI set to 0, ASDI still works [in Brawl I've been told MK's Mach Tornado has 0 SDI, so that means to escape it you hold up to ASDI out hopefully, at least as a lightweight, although I don't know if that true or actually works]. In any case, even if the forward smash can't be SDI'd, sometimes, for whatever reason, it doesn't work right and they don't get hit by the final part.

Again, this isn't meant as a buff or nerf directly, but only as a fix [sort of like removing the weird hurtbox above MK's fsmash]. I'd like the dev team to think about what reasons they have for NOT making this change, because this sort of fix should be relatively simple [given that tornado was wholly overhauled and Olimar's been redone numerous times]. I've offered my argument - I don't have videos of it because I don't upload things, but I've seen it happen, and I'd think this would take, max, an hour for one member, and honestly I'd hope it takes much, much less (like 10 minutes). If it really takes a long time I guess I understand, but that's annoying then.

Also note that if fsmash were just reverted to single-hit, it would fix the ridiculous shield damage [unless that's intentional].

The only argument I can think of against this change is "We want it multi-hitting for new people", at which point making the up (or down, or both) angled forward smash single-hit and the default multi-hit would fix the problem, since new people don't angle smashes in general [I've met several new people (over 50) and none of them know how to angle stuff until they either research the game or I tell them.]

And if it were angled? No one who doesn't want it changed for whatever reason would notice the difference if they just are told don't angle it (or to angle if default is single-hit). It would only serve to make the move function the way it always did.

If this doesn't get in, I'll be not anymore annoyed so much as disheartened, since it would seem either A) non-devs don't matter or (more likely) B) my other ideas were so thoroughly disliked that my perfectly reasonable idea [there's no way this is even mildly unreasonable to request a move to work as intended] is shot down too.

Again, if this is a change that would take 5 hours, I'd be able to live with the dev team just saying no because of that, but I can't honestly believe altering one move would take nearly that much time.

 

[Mawootad]

Altering the move would probably be trivial, but adding weird tilt variants isn't the smoothest way of going around fixing moves. We'll do some research on things and if Pikachu's fsmash is indeed escapable with asdi we'll fix that.