Link's Forward Smash

Discussion in 'Link' started by Gold_TSG, Apr 23, 2014.

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  1. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    I honestly think it needs to be redone. As is, it's one of the worst, most unreliable fsmashes in the game. Unless the first hit lands, it's very easy to avoid, especially being that it only hits once he lands back on the ground, and only on grounded opponents. I never use it, and I play a mean Link otherwise. I'd much prefer he have his Smash 64 fsmash, as it feels better on him, since his old fsmash was moved to his ftilt.
     
  2. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    I don't have issues with it at all.

    Are you saying that opponents slightly off the ground will not get hit?

    Link is a zoner. I hit with his fsmash usually by calling peoples techs and rolls. Or just by timing the first hit right.
     
  3. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    It does not hit unless they are on the ground. Period. It's simply not reliable. It would be better off as the 64 version.
     
  4. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    you should't have to be an expert to land a simple f-smash :p ...i also even wondered if his n64 smash would work better.. but that being said, i still really like the jumping strike.. the animation (form the "buggy version", idk about the newer one) looks kinda choppy still though... the main reason is because link only winds the sword back to his directly in front of his chest as he turns his body, instead of from his other side (player wise, it should be coming from behind you to look like it has a more even flow..).. look at baseball players or the ways characters swing bats, beam swords, etc. and the wind up before the swing looks more natural... the way it is, it looks really restrained... and the overhead swing part of releasing a in the animation should make his chest pushed a little more forward, like he's arching his back to swing downward with more force... this part looks a lot more consistently smooth, but i could see a few touch-ups in the future being needed... ...i like this move a lot, but i wish the input could be different... and i'm not really a fan of the new back throw either :p i love the helm splitter in the games, but i just don't feel like it fits over a throw, and the motion of him needing to jump forward during a back throw also makes it look a little strange... ... i thought of a way that the sword skills from twilight princess could all go over one move and still have separate inputs. for anyone who may not have heard it (i think it was deleted), :in my idea:

    his f air is the jump attack (not strike, the one where you tap A while targeting in Zelda games)... he swings overhead and goes into a kind of fast fall with his sword leading down, like in Ike and Kirby's up B's, but a bit longer range, more horizontal momentum, and not as fast of a fall...

    his f air, hold A is the helm splitter flip... since his down air is the "finishing blow" (in vBrawl, and still the same in this), it would make sense that the other sword art he uses in the air should be and air attack here... when you hold A, you gain some more horizontal momentum than the jump attack (like in max Samus's f air screw atack), but you can't spam it because the end lag forces you to fall more before being able to use it again... this attack would have a meteor sweet spot (/"spike" sweet spot?) at the bottom of the swing and spike foes downward, while bouncing upwards if you connect to help recover a little... can also gain a bounce if you hit a projectile (with the sword, not your face), and could really help link get alternative recoveries (i know his current recovery is really good, but he could get some kinds of nerfs elsewhere...? also, it could be made in a way so that it turns you around, preventing you from using it twice in a row (in the same direction)

    his down air would still be the finishing blow, but in the air it would have the current "finishing blow" function over his f smash that makes grounded foes (i guess) fall and spike, and when grounded foes are hit when Link lands, they'll be sent upwards.. a little like how Bowser's current butt bomb works... this way you can use it while jumping at your foe and it will still have the same use as it does in the jumping strike...

    finally, his f smash: it would normally work as the jumping strike... pressing b during it doesn't change it (or maybe makes you pull out arrows)... instead, if released normally, you'll use the normal jumping strike, while if tilted, you'll activate one of the two "hero's skills" sword attacks...
    --if you tilt up when you release A, then he'll jump a bit higher than the normal jumping strike and go into his motion for the helm splitter, knocking his foes to the ground, or maybe off the ground, but not upwards or horizontally. however this could either be cancellable after it connects (for instance into the finishing blow), or the idea above to make it force you to turn around could set you up for a follow up attack, assuming your foes don't tech out of the way when you spike them to the ground...
    --if you tilt down when you release A, then he'll jump more horizontally, going into the finishing blow currently in the game that's activated by pressing B... it'll still have the same function and use, but this input would help prevent the weird glitch (or maybe it's intentional) where you occasionally pull out arrows while trying to use this move... (i'm aware that in the new version you can do this intentionally by letting go of A during the jump and/or trying to press B more than once... already forgot how i did it three times in a row)

    i would prefer (and i think a dev has said this too) if less moves had an input requiring pressing both A and B simultaneously :p ...tilts would make more sense (seeing as you shouldn't really be able to tilt an over head smash anyway and [the input it holds] would go to waste otherwise) for variations on a smash attack... and i could see these two (tilt) inputs being switched with one another since finishing blow could make sense to go further and could be on up tilt smash instead, whereas helm splitter would go much shorter, but this was my original idea, and i guess taking the height of the jump as the factor, i would use up for the one that goes higher, etc....


    ...god that was annoying to write...(( please don't delete this Dx ))
     
  5. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    I didn't even read that wall of text.

    I'm not exactly lacking in the ability to land moves. It's the fact that the move functions differently than every other fsmash in the game. If you do not hit with the initial strike, the rest of the move is botched. You're more than likely going to miss the ground hit. This is very basic stuff here. I'm far from being inexperienced with understanding how things should function, so please refrain from saying something like "you shouldn't have to be an expert to land a simple fsmash." that's not only insulting, but the exact opposite of what I'm saying.
     
  6. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    I didn't mean it like that, I meant that the current fsmash is difficult to land, and shouldn't be. "You shouldn't have t be an expert to land a forward smash", but for some reason, with this move, you kinda do :p (sorry for that confusion)

    F smash should be an attack that newcomers can still make use of. It shouldn't need too much knowledge to use, but this one takes more practice than it should
     
  7. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    It requires too much precision and timing for what is essentially a mediocre, situational fsmash that 90% of the time won't hit your opponent.

    And don't worry about it. My bad for misunderstanding what you meant.

    64 had an awesome fsmash for Link. It had decent range, and hit a good area above him as well. Every other fsmash in the game can hit aerial opponents. The current on Link cannot UNLESS that small starting slash connects.
     
  8. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    Still have to disagree with you there. Maybe all my opponents are stupid then? I have no issues connecting with the second portion only of this move. It does usually miss on whiff, my fault there, but not when I predict and call rolls and techs. This move is more situational, and can afford to be, because his ftilt functions like both an ftilt and and a forward smash.

    I would also rather not lose his fair in regard to doods suggestion. Fair is a decent move.
     
  9. Kien

    Kien A Meaningless Circle Minus Backroom

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    It's strange because I've hit aerial opponents with his F smash all the time. I don't know if you main Link or not but the JS is not unreliable when you know how to use it.
     
  10. Kien

    Kien A Meaningless Circle Minus Backroom

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    I'm bad at quoting.

    JS isn't a mediocre smash at all. It can KO most people off the top at around 90-105. The entire point of the move is to be close enough to connect with the initial strike if you want to hit with he landing hit. If you're using it from far away you shouldn't expect to land the blow at all. If anything, I'll check out his landing box and see if it's oddly on the ground. If so that's an easy fix.
     
  11. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    You could say I main Link, as I can use him fairly effectively. I don't use his fsmash because of how it functions. Whether or not I'm "using it properly" shouldn't even be an argument. If I'm jumping at someone, I expect it to hit during the entire slash animation, not just when he lands. I'm not an idiot, and I can tell when a move is failing to function effectively as it is. I can use any other character's fsmash as it's intended to be used, and I fail to see why Link has to be that one character that requires more effort to land a simple fsmash. Half the time when I'm up close and try to land it, the initial hit misses, and thus the rest of the move misses. Because of this, I've had to alter my entire game around not using fsmash at all with him.
     
  12. Kien

    Kien A Meaningless Circle Minus Backroom

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    After doing some MORE Fsmashing I can see where you're coming from. It's only right before he lands though that he actually draws the blade down. I put a hitbox on his sword because there wasn't one to hit aerial enemies. It's weak, but it should be enough to send them into the powerful blow.
     
  13. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    Thank you. I look forward to testing that out once it's been added.
     
  14. justadood

    justadood Just a dood with ideas

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    i agree, but i guess it would make the most sense for the attack i have in mind to go here... i have another idea(suggestion) that might work better, and no moves need to be taken out:

    forward (tap) air remains the same

    forward (hold) air does the helm splitter flip i described

    down air remains finishing blow

    *f smash (not charged) becomes jump attack, like twilight princess...

    *f smash (fully charged) becomes jumping strike, like i twilight princess...

    *f smash tilt up (fully charged) becomes helm splitter

    *f smash tilt down (fully charged) becomes finishing blow




    **the charge can be released a bit early, like in ROB's and still have a "fully charged" effect
     
  15. DubLTeamz

    DubLTeamz Master of Arbitrary Opnions

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    It would be nice if his Fsmash could hit aerial opponents, but I kind of like having to time it to actually hit someone.

    If you guys DO make it so he can hit opponents in the air, make it so he can also jump ledges. As in, if he uses it on the edge of FD, he falls to his doom.
     
  16. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    That's entirely counter productive to the point of an fsmash.
     
  17. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    We made some stealth changes to his fSmash inbetween fixes. We hope it works better!
     
  18. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    I actually like the idea of link getting the jump attack somehow. If fsmash could be sped up when it is uncharged, I wouldn't mind seeing that become the jump attack. I wouldn't be heart broken if he didn't get it though either. Link has gotten a lot of stuff as is, even though it does all work in his defense for getting these things. I'd personally rather see him get shield bash before anything else. Maybe shield bash could become his jab3? I think you guys could animate it such that he could retain most of jab3s range. He would just be a bit more violent with the shield bash, like he would have to take a small, fast step forward maybe!
     
  19. Mohl

    Mohl Member

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    Did you at least make the animation better?
    Because it looks so friggin janky compared to the rest of his moveset, short of maybe his new throws, which, while nice, need smoothing.
     
  20. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Be wary of necroposting!
     
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