January 2017 - 4.0 Changelog PREVIEW!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Pin Clock, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Time for another changelog preview!

    Brawl Minus has seen a lot of growth in 2016! We've gained talented developers like

    Death Blasts are now colored according to your controller slot or team

    Captain Falcon
    uTaunt:
    Now has a YESS sfx on it

    Knee of Justice:
    No longer forces opponent to fly in the direction cap. is facing
    Reverse Knockback fAir is now a thing and it is glorious

    Falcon Punch:
    Reverse Falcon Punch now deals 1% more total damage
    We accidentally nerfed this from vBrawl. Whoops, fixed now!

    Raptor Boost:
    Damage increased to 15 total
    KBG reduced from 82 -> 62
    Shield Damage increased from 0-10
    Kill power increased. Kill range 118 -> 93 (tested against Mario on FD)

    Falcon Kick:
    Is now B-Reversable

    Falco
    Fair:
    Furthest repeating hitbox size 5 -> 4.3
    Furthest hitbox Y offset 6 -> 5
    Finishing hitboxes size 10 -> 5.7
    Falco now actually has to hit foes with his beak rather than vaguely near it

    Firebird:
    Repeating hitboxes size 8 -> 6.8
    Finishing hitbox size 10 -> 8
    Distances shortened to match fox's
    Back when we removed the PERSONALLY I PREFER THE start-up in 3.3, we never rebalanced the move to account for this change, allowing Falco to have an absurd recovery for years. Now his recovery is just really good.

    Fsmash:
    - Windbox no longer affects grounded foes

    Ganondorf
    Warlock Punch (Air)
    Now fully cancellable on-hit

    Gandouken
    restored to original/MAX size
    - now fires from the left hand
    - GFX matches hitbox more accurately
    - check if B is held 2 frames earlier (69->67)
    - Fixed being able to knock super scope out of ganon's hand during gandouken
    Wizard’s Foot
    Is now B-Reversable

    Ike
    fAir
    Removed windboxes from the landing portion of the attack
    We thought we got all of the attack before, but they were still hidden on the landing portion.

    Eruption
    Fixed full charged indicators not synching when Ike goes from Air to Ground
    All of Ike's fire is now Blue dabadidabada
    We got with the times!

    Quick Draw
    Can now cancel into taunts on the ground

    Aether
    Changed from no armor to 5% Heavy Armor (lasts till the last 23 frames)
    When we didn't want Ike to have free edge stalls, we kinda made it free to edgeguard Ike instead. This should no longer be the case.

    Kirby
    Sliding dTilt
    Now has the anti-stage spike property applied

    Bowser
    Flying Slam
    Now correctly buries R.O.B.

    Meta Knight
    Dair
    Sweet spot angle 285 -> 295
    Sweet spot BKB/KBG 50/50 -> 53/53
    Sour spot angle 285 -> 295
    Sour spot BKB/KBG 50/75 -> 53/53
    This should alleviate those pesky dAir changes

    Drill Rush
    Startup FSM 1.3 -> 1.0 (Frames before first hitbox 20 -> 25)
    Drill Rush was a little too safe for this meta, but it won't be the case to knight.

    Mewtwo
    AI
    Will now properly recover

    Teleport
    Fixed Mewtwo remaining invisible if teleport into a walljump/Wallcling

    Shadow Ball
    Fixed holding armored foes in hitlag forever (removed hitlag every 7 hits)

    fThrow
    Changed Lucario SFX to Mewtwo SFX

    fAir
    Granted a bit more range

    Ness
    Dash Speed: 1.3 --> 1.6
    Max run speed: 1.393 --> 1.65

    Peach
    Toad:
    Invulnerability on successful counter 4 frames --> 10 frames
    Spores cannot be reflected or absorbed
    Toad is no longer the worst counter in the game

    Pichu
    Specials
    Now recover charges on taking damage

    Pikachu
    Side Taunt:
    - IASA frame 60
    Pika PIKAA!!Pika PIKAPika PIKAPika PIKAA!!~~

    uAir:
    Tailspike!! on last hitbox
    sweetspot on the tip of the tail meteors opponent
    sourspot sends them slightly downwards behind

    Pit
    Meteor Cancel Window is now frame 24
    Wings of Icarus
    Now useable up to 3 times in the air

    Ivysaur
    Improved Entry Animation

    dTilt
    Slightly increased damage

    fSmash
    Slightly increased damage and knockback growth

    Giga Drain
    Fixed the move’s state not converting from air to ground when Ivysaur lands

    Ice Climbers
    Icicle Shot
    Fixed a bug that had each climber shoot out two icicles instead of 1

    Jigglypuff
    Air Mobility
    Air Stopping Mobility: 0.17 -> 0.19
    Max H Air Velocity: 1.269 -> 1.35

    Sing:
    Hitbox size increases with each beat (35 on all -> 18-27-36)
    GFX altered to now be accurate to Sing’s hitboxes

    Samus
    Uptilt:
    Increased BKB (40->50) for grounded opponents

    Power Bombs:
    Changed GFX size (0.3->0.15) & (0.6->0.4)
    Changed explosion SFX (BlastBox -> LargeBomb)

    Grab:
    Now properly works on aerial opponents

    Sheik
    bAir
    hitbox on her left leg will now send foes in the opposite direction of the rest of the move

    Snake
    C4:
    Never stickies back on Snake.
    KBG 90 --> 80

    Wolf
    RunBrake:
    Fixed a Bug where wolf wouldn't go into his TurnRun animation to achieve consistent Reverse Aerial Rush

    fSmash:
    Moved hitbox under his hand to his hand

    Fire Wolf:
    Removed Super Armor

    Blaster:
    Added ability to cancel into normals, shield, dodge, and jump after blaster fires (frame 17)

    Zelda
    Farore's Wind:
    Increased damage on body hitbox (6->16), Buffed to match aerial Kill Power

    Lylat Cruise
    No longer tilts. Sorry about making it tilt on accident.

    All changes are not final and subject to change.

    I hope you liked this sneak peak in the changes to come, and we can't wait until we can show more, but until then, keep on Breaking the Limits!
     
  2. Bent 00

    Bent 00 Longtime Limit Breaker

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    Cool. Here are my thoughts on this changelog preview.

    Great, happy to see this feature from Smash 4. Now how about color auras instead of Team Battles locking fighters into specific costumes based on which Team they are?
    Welcome boosts for the Captain!
    So Up-Taunt goes "Yess", plus the usual "Show me, Show me, Show me ya Moves" if cancelled into the Super Taunt? If so, doesn't the "Yess" get cut off, or uttered at the same time as the first "Show Me"?
    Assuming the grounded version is still two hits, how much damage does each hit do? Will you tell us the PSA data of both hits?
    These are welcome Nerfs. Lucario Nerfs next, please.
    First three words = :eek: NO WAY...
    Last two words = :( Well, at least Reverse Aerial Warlock Punch can on-hit cancel now.
    You're making Energy Ball Gandouken HUGE again?! Literally the same size it was before the Nerf? Surprised, but I'm not complaining... Anyhow, nice Buffs, but Ganondorf still needs a lot more. He's too slow.
    Good stuff. The new hitbox on Down Taunt is worth mentioning too. :)
    That helps. I would suggest 6-10% damage-based armor instead of only 5% though.
    Can you elaborate on this?
    Thanks from everyone who often only has the CPU to play with! Are you fixing Waluigi's CPU AI recovery as well?
    Interesting. Pikachu will still be able to juggle aerial opponents with Up-Air, right?
    Uh, I'm no Pit main, but that sounds a bit much... I would just make it refresh properly if Pit is knocked out of it.
    Very nice! Does this mean C4 will not transfer between other players, too? I read that some in the Minus Discord are against this, but I don't know why... Sounds like a major improvement to me.
    Thanks for this. Now maybe I can actually use it as a reliable K.O. move!
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
  3. Sammi-husky

    Sammi-husky Scientist #1 Minus Backroom

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    Since im the one who did the falcon stuff, here ya go.


    Code:
    Body Collision: status=Normal
    Asynchronous Timer: frames=3
    Offensive Collision: Id=0, Bone=22, Damage=2, ShieldDamage=0, Direction=130, BaseKnockback=30, WeightKnockback=50, KnockbackGrowth=100, Size=5, Z Offset=-1, Y Offset=0, X Offset=0, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x1.5, SDIMultiplier=x0, Flags=29031085
    Asynchronous Timer: frames=5
    Terminate Collisions:
    Asynchronous Timer: frames=6
    Offensive Collision: Id=0, Bone=20, Damage=13, ShieldDamage=10, Direction=80, BaseKnockback=105, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=62, Size=7, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=2, X Offset=-8, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x2.7, SDIMultiplier=x0.7, Flags=29031085
    Offensive Collision: Id=0, Bone=20, Damage=13, ShieldDamage=10, Direction=80, BaseKnockback=105, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=62, Size=7, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=4, X Offset=-4, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x2.7, SDIMultiplier=x0.7, Flags=29031085
    Offensive Collision: Id=0, Bone=22, Damage=13, ShieldDamage=10, Direction=80, BaseKnockback=105, WeightKnockback=0, KnockbackGrowth=62, Size=7, Z Offset=0, Y Offset=0, X Offset=0, TripRate=0%, HitlagMultiplier=x2.7, SDIMultiplier=x0.7, Flags=29031085
    Asynchronous Timer: frames=12
    Terminate Collisions:
    
    So first hit is 2 damage, second is 13.

    Lucario is getting more than some nerfs, he's getting a significant rework to a few moves.
     
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  4. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Right now, when a foe is grabbing the ledge and Kirby hits them with his sliding dTilt, they get stage spiked
    In 4.0, they will instead pop straight up.

    Of course

    We tried that, but Pit's UpB works mechanically different from others. Also Pit would like to attack during his UpB, rather than be helpless and pray he makes it back to the stage.
     
  5. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos Minus Backroom

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    I honestly thought that the bug with Ice Climbers' Icicle Shot was supposed to be there. I'm not against it going away, but I thought that was on purpose. I do thank you very much for the Pit Up B changes, however. I can recall many a time going up against BC and getting gimped because I got hit out of Up B. Also Snake's C4 is a welcome change. All around good balances.
     
  6. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    I'd like to think there's some consideration to making Snake's c4 slightly weaker, since he's no longer at risk of it returning to him.
     
  7. Doqtor Kirby

    Doqtor Kirby Resident Design Nitpicker Minus Backroom

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    I love this dropoff here like we don't even know who.
     
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  8. Gold_TSG

    Gold_TSG Can't stop The Dorf Train.

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    It is a mystery to all
     
  9. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    This is all interesting, and it made me realize something that probably should have occurred to me a while ago.

    Falco's dair is like, really, REALLY good offstage vs a lot of characters like Ike, Ness, etc. So is Meta Knight's.

    Would it be reasonable to change Falco and MK's dairs [at least the sourspots] to 4% each, and add 5% armor to some of the bad [for Minus standards] recoveries, such as you given to Ike [perhaps also Ness, Lucas, maybe Ivysaur, maybe maybe Roy and Bowser or something]?

    Falco would still have bair, and MK would still have nair (and you could even leave the sweetspot dairs doing more than 5% if that felt right), but it occurred to me that the Falco changes don't really take away from what makes him ridiculous and for some, unfun to fight. Fair is fine (that move is goofy), firebird changes probably needed to happen [as much as I miss the PERSONALLY I PREFER FIRE!], but they don't actually stop him from dumpstering a lot of bad recoveries offstage, or forcing people offstage repeatedly with his other tools. While how he plays doesn't seem fundamentally broken in a bad way, I can still imagine that Ness/Ike/etc. players don't particularly enjoy getting KO'd at like 10% from a back throw and two sourspot dairs. They'll still get KO'd by sweet spot dairs, but those require a level of precision offstage, and you can potentially place yourself in spots where Falco has to go below you and do rising dairs, which is risky for him as well when someone can save a jump and double jump dair or whatever.

    It *would* nerf his onstage combo game in terms of damage [you could make sure the KB stays the same through clever value manipulation I'm sure], but it's not like he doesn't already have good ways to rack damage with nair, bair, and utilt.

    Can't say I like all the changes, but I like most of what I see. Good stuff, and excited for a new patch!
     
  10. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

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    ....


    I literally just posted my suggestions for the next version and find this thread basically taking many of my suggestions and making them reality. I'm not complaining, but now I have to go back and edit my post.

    *ssiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggghhhh*

    :nesmk:
     
  11. AGentleStar

    AGentleStar Video Editor

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    • Do not Double Post.
    Falco's dair also needs more landing lag. It can still be auto-cancelable from a shorthop, but don't make it so safe.

    MK's dair is fine as is. It's a very weak hitting meteor. It's not nearly as powerful as Falco's. Plus, the angle changes sound promising. I would say that the KBG might need to be nerfed, but I'm really ignorant when it comes to BKG, attack priority and other coding mumbo-jumbo. :nesmk:
     
  12. MelonKeepR

    MelonKeepR Active Member

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    rip
     
  13. coolanybody

    coolanybody The player worse than a CPU

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    no reverse of fox sh height?
     
  14. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    I thought the point of dair was that it's pretty safe, but has a pretty poor horizontal range, making it relatively easy to outspace [given Falco's low speed and most of the cast's fast movement and large hitboxes]. That is, if you can get close enough to hit them or your shield, you're in a good spot, but you need to get into that range using lasers and Falco's sub-par mobility [or side+b, which has a rather obvious effective range and is punishable on startup and/or can be stuffed when he tries to jump out of it].

    I'm not sure the changes I suggested should happen... I just decided to throw them out there in case the devs decided they'd be a good idea.
     
  15. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    This is in I just forgot to put a sectoin for Fox in the Changelog preview.
     
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  16. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    So Ike still hasn't received his grounded QD into QD or specials like he originally had before his NSM nerf (which he was also capable of using without NSM active). His ability to roll backwards or forwards out of QD still hasn't been restored, even though the recent nerf to it stated it would only disallow spot dodges.

    I like that Aether has some armor on it, but the majority of aerial moves in the game deal over 5%, making it still incredibly gimpable. I wouldn't mind if this were buffed to 15% in exchange for his ability to heal. It doesn't need to be a recovery move in the sense that it heals, only so that he can safely return to stage.

    Considering the fact that the dev team forgot to fix Falco's up-b since like, 3.3, I wouldn't be surprised if they continued to overlook these things or not consider them.

    Furthermore, I have yet to receive clarification as to the degree in which FFA gameplay is considered. I was told that it isn't, but if not, then there is no point in Wario's fThrow being able to hit other enemies or to be able to carry them across the stage (it kills incredibly late to begin with).

    Finally, when will Luigi make sense? His strongest move shouldn't be his side-b. Sweetspot up-b should still be strongest. Instead of the sourspots dealing more damage, why not give Luigi meteor hitboxes on his head on his way down? Or prevent it from making him helpless? I literally see no reason for him to up-B when side-b provides greater kill power, recovery, and hurtbox shifting.
     
  17. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

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    Ike can't jump out of QD either...
     
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  18. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    Yeah and though it would be nice if he could I don't think it's necessary if he's just giving things he had that were apparently not going to be nerfed, but apparently accidentally were, and though I was told they'd be fixed, they haven't. :/ If these things were to be removed then a jump out of QD would reasonably compensate, but again this deal hasn't even been addressed for what it is from what I can tell.
     
  19. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    At the risk of sounding sarcastic, should we expect 4.0 to come out roughly a year after 4.0BC as 4.0BC did with respect to 4.0B?
     
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