Ike needs to be redone. [RANT]

Discussion in 'Ike' started by DatPsychologist, Jan 3, 2018.

  1. DatPsychologist

    DatPsychologist New Member

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    Ike, Ike, Ike. One of the best lords in all of the Fire Emblem games. Unquestionably the best unit you get in his own game, also. So why does he feel so EH in Minus?

    Well, I decided to go off the best logical comparison I could. His stats in Minus vs. his stats in his official Fire Emblem game, Path of Radiance.

    In Minus, Ike is strangely correct and incorrect. He is played as a heavy hitter with good range and clunky mobility. He has powerful hits, and suprisingly has acceptable recovery now, especially with the addition of Aether actually doing healing.(Like it does in Path of Radiance)

    In PoR, Ike is all around perfect. His lowest stat is luck. Friggin' LUCK. He's a defensive physical unit and even his magic resistance is good. But while looking through his stat growths (percentages for each stat to determine if they'll increase on a level up), I discovered something VERY interesting. His speed.

    In Minus, he's clunky and slow. In PoR, he's one of the fastest units.

    Why? There's no reasoning for this. It's not entirely Minus' fault however, as all the official Smash games pull the same nonsense. So I decided to dig deeper to further prove my point.

    If Ike should be protrayed in Minus correctly, then I guess I must have some grounds to make this so, yes? Well, I do.

    Marth and Roy.

    Roy in his official game was about average speed, did good damage(at the end of the game), and could shoot fire out of his blade. He was very flashy, and had a good swing.

    Just like in Minus.

    Marth in his official game was somewhat faster than Roy, but had slightly less of a swing. He was more technical, landing perfect hits to deal powerful blows, and was good at destroying defenses with the thrust of his rapier.

    Just like in Minus.

    So why? WHY is Ike portrayed wrongly compared to these two already well-portrayed characters? Even from his own franchise, at that.

    Then I thought about their weapons slowing them down. Maybe that's it? Ike's sword does seem more heavy than Marth's sword, which is essentially a rapier.

    Marth's blade (according to the official FE games) is 3 pounds. Makes perfect sense. Ragnell (Ike's blade) is an intense 20 pounds. So this covers why Ike is slow, right?

    Nope. In FE, how much a weapon's weight affects a unit's speed is dependant on that unit's constitution. Ike is clearly bulky as hell, not to mention he mostly wields Ragnell ONE-HANDED in PoR without a problem. People even say Ike would wield a three-handed weapon if he could, because he's just that strong.

    But I couldn't stop there. I had to find something more powerful. Something so definitive that it just couldn't be argued against. I needed the smoking gun.

    And damn, did I find it.

    Would you like to know what Roy's, Marth's, and Ike's OFFICIAL speed growth rates are?

    Roy = 40% per Level
    Marth = 50% per Level
    Ike = 55% per Level

    Ike is CANONICALLY FASTER THAN MARTH.


    Fight me.
     
  2. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    The character's playstyle is more important than the character's portrayal representing canon. Minus and Smash take tons of liberties with canon as it is.

    Ike goes zoom if you cancel Quick Draw into attacks and use that as a burst movement option.
     
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  3. MelonKeepR

    MelonKeepR Active Member

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  4. Kymaera K1ng

    Kymaera K1ng A PMCC player

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    yes very profesonal veyr good
     
  5. DatPsychologist

    DatPsychologist New Member

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    While I do agree that Quick Draw is a massive upgrade to Ike's mobility, it doesn't help that he is still clunky. Ike is canonically faster than the majority of characters in Smash regardless, so why does he have to use his critical-animation-move (because thats what his sideb is based off of) to get around when there is literally a cutscene in Ike's game where he runs through an entire crowd after a girl starts falling 4-5 feet and still catches her before she even gets close to the ground? I just want his ground speed and maybe air speed to be faster. Everything else about Ike in Minus is perfectly canon except for his mobility.
     
  6. The Big Cheese

    The Big Cheese Jajbw

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    While it definitely would be really cool if Ike was as fast as he was in his original games, there's a certain point where you have to draw the line between carrying continuity with what smash characters can do and ruining the balance of the game. It's sort of as Pin Clock said above, the character's playstyle is more important than his canonical portrayal.

    Ike could totally have a super-fast ground speed, or airspeed as you've mentioned, but considering how powerful his moves are, and how hard it can be to KO him sometimes (his weight and recently buffed recovery make it pretty difficult), making him move faster would make him way too overpowered. And while this is Brawl - after all, there's definitely a point where it goes too far. Making Ike move faster would create a character with high weight, high mobility, high damage, high KO potential, pretty decent recovery, and a pretty alright combo game (quick draw). The only real setback would be his laggy moves. Clearly this character would be too good.

    also sorry if everything i'm saying is misinformed, i'm kinda new
     
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  7. Survivian

    Survivian The Rando-Est of Brandos

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    > Rants about canon
    > Doesn’t rant about how Olimar should be 2 cm
    > Doesn’t rant about Kirby should be 8 inches
    > Doesn’t rant about etc.


    In all honesty, you just want Ike to be faster.
    And you just don’t like how Smash portrays him as a slow-moving heavy hitter.
    This is a big moment of playstyle over canon.
    If we went canon, then that would open up the floodgates of all the characters becoming canon in one way or another.
    Ike doesn’t need a rework.
    He will probably never get a rework.
    Canon =/= Playstyle
    Move on.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2018
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  8. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    That was actually a very well put post
     
  9. DatPsychologist

    DatPsychologist New Member

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    Nah, I understand what you mean. And I do agree with you, whereas is SHOULD be a thing for Ike to be canon, but there's not really a 'correct' way to implement it without killing the balance. It just sucks.

    Also, sorry to Pin Clock and whoever I may have seemed hostile towards. Tbh, I'm more angry at the original Brawl makers for fucking up their own canon.
     
  10. The Big Cheese

    The Big Cheese Jajbw

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    well gee thanks

    Tbh there are a lot of questionable things that Nintendo has done in every smash game...
     
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  11. MelonKeepR

    MelonKeepR Active Member

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    Yeah, but in regards to breaking the canon of certain characters/series it's only done to make the character realisable and balanced, as well as fun.
     
  12. The Big Cheese

    The Big Cheese Jajbw

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    Well yeah, that's what I said before. I was just pointing out that Nintendo's choices with smash in the past (not necessarily limited to canonical ones) haven't always been completely sound.
     
  13. player_03

    player_03 P3

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    According to LoZ lore, the only way to hurt Ganondorf is using the Master Sword.
     
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  14. Coepe

    Coepe New Member

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    That's only killing him. Pretty much any weapon can hurt him.

    Other things that can actually kill Ganon/Ganondorf are light arrows, silver arrows, and the Four Sword.
     
  15. player_03

    player_03 P3

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    Interesting. Still, if we wanted to stay true to lore and make everyone as powerful as they "ought" to be, then only Link, Toon Link, and Zelda/Sheik (w/ Smash Ball) could KO Ganondorf.
     
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  16. The Big Cheese

    The Big Cheese Jajbw

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    And the Mario Bros. could KO you by footstooling you.
     
  17. MelonKeepR

    MelonKeepR Active Member

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    Not everything can be killed by jumping on it. It seems more reasonable to assume the things that you can kill by jumping on them are just weak to that, rather than the Mario Bros. having some sort of intrinsic property that makes them OHKO things they jump on.
     
  18. Coepe

    Coepe New Member

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    Rest would have no hitbox.

    Pichu wouldn't deal self-damage.
     
  19. Switch/Suichi

    Switch/Suichi New Member

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    In all honesty, Ike is pretty fine where he is, and my guess would be he's somewhere around mid-high mid-tier. Whilst Eruption is still kinda ass unless you can hit a star KO, QD is perhaps one of the best movement based special's in the entire game, giving Ike extreme air mobility and a great combo game.

    If Ike were to be canon Ike against the rest of the current cast, he'd easily wreck too much face and end up in at LEAST mid high-tier. While I'd be one for Ike buffs (cause who doesn't like a swole main), Ike is in a good spot.

    If I recall correctly, you play mostly Roy and G&W, so of course Ike feels a bit slow and clunky, when you play characters that feel so graceful and fast. Even I sometime have to remind myself that I'm playing Ike when I've played literally any other character before him and I switch to him. He takes a bit of practice and has a bit of a learning curve, but that doesn't require an entire rework.

    So it's best to just keep him as is, and not run the risk of making him OP.
     

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