Get rid of Pokemon Trainer cycle?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Teckiels, Jun 28, 2015.

  1. Teckiels

    Teckiels New Member

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    I think my pal Red here is a skilled enough battler to be able to switch out to whatever Pokemon he wants. Maybe by a taunt or double pressing down B. What do you guys think? How difficult would this be to implement?
     
  2. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    I think this is good considering how often I've seen friends of mine down-b accidentally especially when they only use one of the three Pokemon.

    In fact, I've found that most people use one or two, but not all of Pokemon Trainer's Pokemon. It's not quite like Zelda and Sheik in which differentiating their tactics is easier: Sheik builds up damage and Zelda gets KOs. Though even in that case, this is Minus, and Sheik can git kills via gimping, and her up-b is wildly powerful upon appearing.

    So yeah, I'm all for this.
     
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  3. NEWB

    NEWB New Member

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    Pokemon shouldn't be changing when you die. I believe it only changes if you die while holding shield. If they main one mon, they shouldn't need to cycle twice.
     
  4. Teckiels

    Teckiels New Member

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    I didn't say they were.
    Well a lot of people, myself included, do play as more than one mon.
     
  5. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    We were actually going to do this for 4.0 and give the all of the pokemon trainer pokemon proper up-specials (not just aerial only) but it turned out to be too difficult.
     
  6. Lucis Perficio

    Lucis Perficio Radiant Hero of Blue Flames

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    Did you mean down-special instead of up-special?

    In PM, each Pokemon is a separate character, though in The Subspace Emissary, since there is only an icon for Pokemon Trainer, they made it so that down-special must be held in order to switch, and tapping the down-special input would yield their respective special move.
     
  7. Teckiels

    Teckiels New Member

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    The specials or the cycle?
     
  8. Pin Clock

    Pin Clock Project Leader Minus Backroom

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    Specials. The cycle is easy enough to do, we just can't leave them with no grounded DownB though!
     
  9. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    Both were difficult, but the biggest problem was the switching iirc
     
  10. Teckiels

    Teckiels New Member

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    That doesn't sound like a big deal if you ask me. One could argue that they didn't have complete down specials in the first place. The way I see it, you're only adding features.
     
  11. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    Yes, but it isn't a "we don't think this is a good idea" thing it's an "our lack of resources puts this in the low priority queue" thing. To give the pokemon proper down specials requires major asm, ai, PSA, animations, and testing, so while it would be amazing to accomplish it's just too much work to really do unless circumstances change.
     
  12. Teckiels

    Teckiels New Member

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    Ok that makes sense. I hope I wasn't being too whiny, I appreciate that a lot of time has to go into this mod, and really love what you guys did with Pokemon Trainer and the game as a whole.
     
  13. Turk Injaydii

    Turk Injaydii Brawl Zeus Bandwagon-Rider

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    Do you guys know the PMDT well at all? I ask because I'm curious what the difference between the resources/circumstances of the B-DT and the original PMDT are, since they were able to completely separate the characters and change them quite drastically. I like you all's iteration of the Pokemon, though. =] So please don't look at this as a complaint or anything.
     
  14. DrPumpkinz

    DrPumpkinz New Member

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    Am I missing something? Wasn't the initial question about being able to control what Pokemon you switch to? I think the double tap down B should be easy enough to program. Single tap would switch to the next Pokemon in the cycle, double tap would switch to the previous Pokemon in the cycle. No need for all-new attacks.
     
  15. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    They might be able to add a secret taunt that goes backwards, but IDK if double-tapping stuff would help... or maybe holding B cycles vs tapping it [ala Gandouken]? But Maw said it's hard so it's quite possible that Brawl being coded... uniquely... makes this too hard to achieve.
     
  16. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    Well we can probably do it now due to new advances, and we're definitely removing switching from down-b, but we think that the best solution may be to remove switching entirely. The flavor of it is cool, but most players don't use the feature and the balance implications of what would happen if people actually did use it frequently are pretty scary, given that the designs of the three pokemon mean that basically they should always have positive matchups against everyone if a player knows how to play all three at a decent level.
     
  17. Thor

    Thor Well-Known Member

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    You can still go from Samus to ZSS and not back, and from Zelda to Sheik and back... are those staying, or not?

    I have to wonder what bad MUs each has [I just don't know], and I'm curious how they cover each other, but I can imagine they have impressive coverage nonetheless.
     
  18. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    Sheik and Zelda will be staying, as will Samus and ZSS (assuming they can still switch, I don't remember). The pokemon switching isn't really relevant right now because Squirtle is just way better than the other two pokemon, but if that wasn't the case the huge playstyle differences would make that the case.
     
  19. Xentas

    Xentas Some Minus Fan Who Likes Criticism

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    hmm. hmm. heh. alright. keeping one but deleting the other. fairness. less options. good for them both. okay. I see.

    Personally I'm all for it but it's very weird to think that this is actually going to work in their favor. Reducing options always causes more harm then good.

    Also, Samus does not switch.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2016
  20. Xentas

    Xentas Some Minus Fan Who Likes Criticism

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    I suppose I'll ask how finished is Red and his Pokémon? Is this going to be the most notable change for them in the 4.0 final?
    (sorry for doublepost but I wanted to separate these two posts)
     
  21. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    The difference between two fighters and three fighters is pretty big. Also, the pokemon individually will be better overall, just they won't have a down special that's really incredibly stupid at the highest levels and utter trash at anything else. Also, separating the pokemon is not the biggest change to 4.0.
     
  22. Xentas

    Xentas Some Minus Fan Who Likes Criticism

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    You read that wrong, I think? I meant the Pokes, not 4.0 in general. :p Good to know though. I'd just find it odd for down special to do nothing at all.
     
  23. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    The pokemon will have grounded down specials in 4.0 no matter what else we do.
     
  24. Xentas

    Xentas Some Minus Fan Who Likes Criticism

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    I thought you said that redesigning them with grounded specials would be a challenge and you were just editing them all out? Or did you say that there were new discoveries about Brawl that will allow this to happen now? I think I confused myself here.
     
  25. Mawootad

    Mawootad Minus Backroom

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    No, we would never straight up remove down-b, we would just replace it with something else.
     

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