Does ROB feel balanced compared to the rest of the cast?

[Kien]

I personally don't think ROB is balanced at all. But according to the a few people who will go unnamed I'm simply a sore loser and ROB is perfectly fine. Even if he can wall of pain and jump to the side blastline and back without using his recovery. He can also jump to the top one without it. (Even though Sheik was nerfed for that very reason) Stacked on top of ledgeguarding projectiles that serve as walls, deal 21%, semi spike, can be charged and carried, and respawn on shield it seems pretty blatant to me but maybe I'm just covered in salt. In that case you can call me Morton because I can't stop thinking he's overpowered.

Looking at his frame data he's the only one in the game that I'm aware of with a 3 frame down smash, and 20 frames of invulnerability on spot dodge starting frame 1 with only 5 endlag frames afterwards. Attack wise, ROBs only ground attacks to come out later than 6 frames is his side and up smash. This wouldn't be so horrible if most of them weren't out on frame 3 but they are. His aerials come out in 6 frames or less for all but nair and bair. One of which has a lingering oversized hitbox that sends at the perfect trajectory for fair followups, go figure. All of his grabs true combo into something which true combos into something else, making ROB a pretty easy mode fighter in my eyes.

Let's not forget how godly his recovery is at momentum canceling either. Even when meteored 3 times in a row at over 80 he survives with up B alone. Which he can attack out of and not cancel it unlike every other flight character.

Too long to read?

Is ROB fair or fun to fight against? Yes or no, and why?

 

[NEWB]

I'll admit that he isn't fun to play against or even to play really. I haven't played a rob since his nerfs though, so I don't even know if they hurt him enough.

My thoughts with him were to rework his gyros so that they onky eat projectiles and trap foes. They do these things very well AND they can kill. I don't think they should kill if they are this useful. I really like two gyros but since he gets them back very easily, he could also simply lose one gyro and go back to only using one at a time.

Rob is kind of big.... The biggest guys don't have spot dodges like that though.... Right? He should probably lose some invincibility.

Otherwise, rework him from scratch. That's painful, but more people don't like him then people who do.

Wait.... His upb can nullify 3 spikes??? Wtf... Fix that too! Make it like pit maybe?

 

[Darxmarx]

I'm not really sure where I stand on this. ROB is fun for me to play because he is one of the odd characters. He is a heavyweight, yet to me has a bigger focus on comboing to death rather than brute force.
However, I can understand that facing ROB isn't always fun. His combos are easy to get caught into and he can take quite a bit of punishment.
As for spot dodge? It does seem to be much better than other heavyweights', so I'm OK with a small nerf.
As for the gyros, I'm not sure what to say. They can be fun to use when playing as ROB, but are pretty annoying when an opponent uses them all the time.
The problem is, if ROB is reworked from scratch, he may be not as fun to use by ROB mains. This seems like a major risk-reward situation. However, Olimar was made from scratch millions of times, and he eventually got a perfect update.
Whatever the coders decide to do, I'll stick by it.

 

[NEWB]

ROB is a heavy weight??? Never felt like it to me.....

How much does weight vary from each character. Link is the heaviest middle weight I think. Wolf is heaviest of all.....

 

[Lightning]

100% sure you're going to get attacked, Kien..

I also think ROB is not balanced compared to everyone else. I mean, the fact that I can just pick ROB up for 1 round, having no experience with him what-so-ever, and beating my brother and cousin easily is enough to say that he needs a nerf.

Why does ROB have 3 jumps??????? He's no acrobat. He's a freakin robot with an already good recovery.

Dont even get me started on those damn gyros..

His aerials come out in 6 frames or less for all but nair and bair. One of which has a lingering oversized hitbox that sends at the perfect trajectory for fair followups, go figure. All of his grabs true combo into something which true combos into something else, making ROB a pretty easy mode fighter in my eyes.

Pretty much. Everything seems to be designed to lead into fair. Sounds fair.

 

[Darxmarx]

ROB is a heavy weight??? Never felt like it to me.....

I'm pretty sure ROB is one of the lightest heavyweights. Probably the lightest.

All of his grabs true combo into something which true combos into something else, making ROB a pretty easy mode fighter in my eyes.

True. It seems like ROB is one of those characters that needs little experience to win matches.

I also think ROB is not balanced compared to everyone else. I mean, the fact that I can just pick ROB up for 1 round, having no experience with him what-so-ever, and beating my brother and cousin easily is enough to say that he needs a nerf.

Further proves my previous point.

 

[Kien]

I find it strange that supposedly all of ROBs combos can be DI'ed out of. But strangely enough, the characters I choose to play as just so happen to be extremely easy to combo. It's either a really lame coincidence, or ROBs moves can only be DI'ed out of by a small portion of the cast.

 

[NEWB]

That is also something I noticed. I always feel like... Yeah I can DI out of this combo my ass.... Never really happens and he has follow ups after it fails.

But that was before the nerfs. That being said the nerfs didn't change much, though I don't think he can follow up as well without his lost jump.

 

[Kien]

He can. He'd have to lose his 3rd jump for that to matter even slightly.

 

[NEWB]

I like him with multi jumps though..... Wrong character to give characters to I guess.

 

[Darxmarx]

I doubt ROB will ever lose his 3rd jump, though.

 

[Bent 00]

I don't like playing against R.O.B. either. I haven't faced one since 3.5 came out, but I expect it's still top tier.

I wouldn't mind if the following aspects of R.O.B.'s get nerfed:
- D-Smash's safeness on-whiff
- F-Air's chainability (poor Captain Falcon...)
- Gyros K.O. potential or number out at once
- Spike survivability
- Jump height / air mobility

That said, Lucario and Dedede are better, so I hear. If you're going to nerf R.O.B. without giving it anything in return, you should consider nerfing those two as well.

Some parts of this old post of mine still apply even now:

Just finished playing against Glyph's ROB again. Man, couldn't even defeat it once this time... It's usually pretty close when I fight his Kirby or Pokemon trio, but that ROB is near unstoppable. I tried using Captain Falcon, Zelda, and Ganondorf (ha), and Zelda seemed to fare slightly better this time. Guess I'll post a few thoughts about the old robot now.

- It's got so. Many. Options! And the speed to use them all. No matter where you are on the screen, nowhere is safe!
- It's really hard to escape from a chain of F-Airs that carry you off the stage. I tried using DI in different directions to no avail. Trying to DI up, down, or past ROB back toward the stage doesn't seem to work at all, and I barely get the chance to try DI towards the blast zone before I'm KO'd. I can't think of any other aerial in the game that links into itself this well.
- ROB's D-Tilt is too easy to spam, and it racks up damage quickly. It's safe to throw out often.
- ROB's Down Smash is very hard to punish when missed. You can't sidestep dodge it because it lasts too long, and you can't shield-grab it because it pushes you away. All you can do is roll or stay far enough away. At least make it possible to shield-grab it!
- Does ROB's Side-B really need to be able to reflect projectiles, now that it can be cancelled? Reflective properties removed in Brawl Minus MAX 3.5.
- An on-stage B-Air seems to combo into a Fully-Charged laser KO often. A little too often.
- Samus lost the "paralyze" effect on her high-level charged shot, so why does ROB's fully-charged laser still have it? Overkill.
- It's almost impossible to avoid both of the Gyros ROB can have on stage at once. It's much more reliable to shield them than to try to dodge them, but then ROB just gets one back immediately. The Gyros have excellent knockback and KO potential too. Definitely the best projectile in the game.
- Glyph says ROB's weak spots are directly below him and at 10 & 2 o' clock, which seems true, but ROB sure is able to guard those weaknesses well. It never needs to be above you on-stage, only off-stage, and then you're usually too busy trying to recover. As for 10 & 2 o' clock, it can't attack you as well in those positions, but not many characters attack well from those positions, either.

I now think that ROB is S Tier along with Lucario, against my mains at least. It has very effective tools for any situation, and its weaknesses are easy for it to guard. I'd like to see some changes to ROB, like removing its third jump and/or adding a drawback to the Gyros. Perhaps make it so that only one can be out at a time, or make it so they don't vanish when shielded, or make them only usable so often. You should be able to sidestep dodge or shield-grab ROB's Down Smash, and it should be easier to escape a chain of F-Airs.

Glyph and I have spent a similar amount of time playing Brawl, though he is more used to online play than I am. Still, I've faced his ROB around 20 times now, and I've only managed to win twice. Here's how I estimate my mains' chances against his ROB for now:

Captain Falcon 10 < 90 ROB
Ganondorf 0 < 100 ROB
Zelda 20 < 80 ROB

ROB is crazy good. I think it would be easier to bring him down a bit rather than bring everyone else up to his level.

 

[NEWB]

Not too sure about having all of those nerfed bent, but I agree with nerfing his spike survivability and gyros KOmpotential.

Given it has poor range, I can except his current dsmash. As long as he can be hit by aerials during the move itself...... I mean..... Maybe slight endlag? I don't like masses of nerfs all at once.

And yeah, lucario also needs to be tones down somehow. I love how he works, but his comeback game is easy. I guess we shouldn't talk about him here though.

 

[NEWB]

Just to clarify why I don't think he needs a lot of nerfs is because he just got nerfed. While most of them did very little to his game, I don't like the idea of balancing someone by weakening them while everyone else grows stronger. If it's just an update with tweaks and nerfs, then yeah, nerf him a lot. If everyone else is getting stronger than lay off many nerfs.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Just to clarify why I don't think he needs a lot of nerfs is because he just got nerfed. While most of them did very little to his game, I don't like the idea of balancing someone by weakening them while everyone else grows stronger. If it's just an update with tweaks and nerfs, then yeah, nerf him a lot. If everyone else is getting stronger than lay off many nerfs.

To be fair to that point, imagine this: let's say Dorf is the worst character in the game (vbrawl), and MK is the strongest (again, vbrawl). We can either buff Dorf to MK's level and call it a day (which would be silly), or we can slowly bring Dorf up while toning MK down, eventually evening out.

That's basically what it is. It's not "why do you guys keep nerfing you should be buffing", so much as it is "we are trying to put everyone on an even field before we push their limits again." Sometimes you need to bring people down before they can be brought back up. If ROB in this case is universally thought of as a character that is too powerful AND too easy to abuse, then there is an issue that needs to be addressed. I can understand the mindset of not wanting so many nerfs in such a whacky OP mod, but you also have to keep in mind that it should be fair all around for everyone, and all characters need to have a natural bad matchup, not just bad MUs against the OTHER universally thought of as OP characters. It simply doesn't work.

 

[NEWB]

That's actually what I meant. We should bring him down slowly and not rapidly.

 

[Bashdemears]

ROB is a heavy weight??? Never felt like it to me.....

How much does weight vary from each character. Link is the heaviest middle weight I think. Wolf is heaviest of all.....

dont confuse fall speed with weight.


If we nerf ROB, we have to super nerf lucario


I'd tweak him a bit. The fsmash laser seems ridiculous. Id increase charge time for gyros. (In return let them stay on the stage longer.) Decrease the 3rd jump height. Make dsmash take a bit longer to come out.

 

[Bashdemears]

I can already hear the frustration in glyphs typing.


Instead why dont we buff characters who need it? Peach, Pichu, Jiggly, Roy, Samus? Anyone?

 

[Kien]

I don't think anyone will think Roy is in need of buffs after this.

The reason ROB has been getting nothing but nerfs these past few updates isn't simply because we have people as good as Glyph playing him all around. The true potential of a character is only realized by a master of using that character. When they find every possible exploit of that character, they can show things that weren't intended to ever be. It's a universal fact that ROB is good at everything, and that no one else in Minus can say the same. I'd say the closest character to perfect is Pit, though people will say otherwise. He's good all around but lacks the range that other fighters have and in a Minus environment he's not that powerful. However, he has all the skills to guard his weakness. ROB on the other hand is weak to reflectors, and anyone who can out projectile him. That's not a lot of bad matchups, maybe 9 at the most, and even then he has faster and safer attacks than most if not all of his bad matchups which brings those fight down to a matter of timing and juggles.

 

[Thor]

I personally don't think ROB is balanced at all. But according to the a few people who will go unnamed I'm simply a sore loser and ROB is perfectly fine. Even if he can wall of pain and jump to the side blastline and back without using his recovery. He can also jump to the top one without it. (Even though Sheik was nerfed for that very reason) Stacked on top of ledgeguarding projectiles that serve as walls, deal 21%, semi spike, can be charged and carried, and respawn on shield it seems pretty blatant to me but maybe I'm just covered in salt. In that case you can call me Morton because I can't stop thinking he's overpowered.

Looking at his frame data he's the only one in the game that I'm aware of with a 3 frame down smash, and 20 frames of invulnerability on spot dodge starting frame 1 with only 5 endlag frames afterwards. Attack wise, ROBs only ground attacks to come out later than 6 frames is his side and up smash. This wouldn't be so horrible if most of them weren't out on frame 3 but they are. His aerials come out in 6 frames or less for all but nair and bair. One of which has a lingering oversized hitbox that sends at the perfect trajectory for fair followups, go figure. All of his grabs true combo into something which true combos into something else, making ROB a pretty easy mode fighter in my eyes.

Let's not forget how godly his recovery is at momentum canceling either. Even when meteored 3 times in a row at over 80 he survives with up B alone. Which he can attack out of and not cancel it unlike every other flight character.

Too long to read?

Is ROB fair or fun to fight against? Yes or no, and why?

ROB still has some nice counters (Falco, Fox, maybe Wolf I suppose) but obnoxious for sure. MK can jump to the side blastline and back without his recovery and a running start, and I'm pretty sure Falco can too. He admittedly has superior air mobility - maybe he needs a small jump size reduction (I'm unaware of how big his jumps are and don't have my Brawl- on me, but if he can make it to the top with 3 jumps... they must be rather large jumps.) His wall of pain is rather annoying... I dunno if we should buff fair a bit damage or kb-wise, then alter the trajectory so it doesn't link as well at higher percents? Getting faired off at 80% to 2 more fairs is REALLY annoying, but I don't think it's that bad at like 30% or whatever, since others can do that too.

3 frame dsmash??? Move that to 4 - it was 5 in vBrawl (and why MK no have 3 frame dsmash too???). And when did spotdodges get nerfed? Falco's was 2-20/22, so no it didn't start on frame 1, but it had a total of 3 frames of lag... BUFF FALCO'S SPOTDODGE! (and make sure Yoshi and the Links weren't nerfed there either - I'd also like Pikachu's reverted if the data was changed, but that might get annoying to play against Pikachu when it's already annoying in good hands.) If dsmash afterlag isn't at vBrawl, move it closer to vBrawl. If it is at vBrawl afterlag, deal with it - the move is plenty punishable there (although maybe its effectiveness on shields should be lowered then... I dunno).

WHEN did ROB get a frame 6 fsmash? EW, NO - move it back to at least frame 9 [it's 13 in vBrawl]. The laser coming out when he fully charges fsmash shouldn't be that much of a big deal - yeah it's a free laser, but a well-timed roll, spotdodge, airdodge, or shielding (or a reflector for the lucky few) deals with it just fine.

Uncharged gyros don't deal 21%, and as a result ROB can't get them that fast. Or if they do, cut it in half - 10~11% is plenty on those for uncharged.

I assume you mean meteor cancelling, and the same could be said of other characters, like Falco at about 1:08 here except Falco does it even better... yeah it's annoying but ROB's still not ungimpable or anything.

That said, ROB is certainly stronger than much of the cast (lower half), but he's not necessarily broken when you compare him to others at the top who can handle what he dishes out and can dominate him too.

I do agree that for all the "his combos are DIable" I've heard, I've NEVER figured how for some - I'd love to just play Glyph's ROB some time and only focus on DIing to figure it out myself eventually.

Just my thoughts on the OP.

 

[The Concept]

R.O.B. is pretty tough. He's not impossible to beat though. Then again, I'm basing this off of my experiences with Pit(who I main), for I dare not fight a R.O.B with anyone else, purely due to not being as skilled with other characters. I do find his combo game ridiculously good, but that may not be a bad thing. The tactic I use is: don't let him start the combo. Hahaha.

 

[Kien]

Thor you read that wrong. His side smash and up smash are the ONLY moves he does on the ground that take longer than 6 frames. And yes, I know that reflector characters are good ROB counters. I find it an issue though that people who are effective counters are the only ones who can put up a reasonable fight against equally skilled opponents.

 

[The Concept]

Actually, I never hit Glyph's R.O.B. with a reflector, then again I've never won, but it was definitely a great fight. Perhaps if I was quick enough to counter the laser with a reflector in midair, I may have won. Maybe.

Disclaimer: I only mention Glyph's R.O.B only because that's the only one I've faced with Pit. I'm quite aware he is not the only good R.O.B on the forum.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Psssst. Concept. You can always fight mine if you want.

And Thor, his charged gyros do in fact do over 20% damage. And his fsmash laser doesn't need to be fully charged to release. A minimum of half charge allows it to be used much faster.

 

[The Concept]

I'll be sure to do that, Gold. you were the other good R.O.B. player
Though I've faced your R.O.B with inadequate skill in the past, perhaps things will be different.

I will say that overall, fighting a good R.O.B is not easy. There may be some things about him that need nerfing. Maybe. However, I'll also say that I've had the same problems with fighting a great Ness, a great Kirby, a good Link, very nice Foxes, and Falco. This is mostly because, and I haven't figured out which is the case yet, either 1. I can't DI. Just doesn't work. or 2. Un-DI-able moves.. It's probably #1 and I'm working on it. I get trapped in combos, and I have an excruciatingly difficult time getting out.