Chaingrabs ARE in minus

[Bashdemears]

And it's not a bad thing.

Play falcon against yoshi. Dthrow. Win.

In this matchup I don't think its broken because yoshi can move around falcon as if falcon was molasses. though it does put the MU in his Falcons favor because even if you DI up or back, he can still regrab. but yes there are chaingrabs.

So two ways to go about this withou changing falcon or yoshi (who has some amazing potentail):

1)Leave as is. (Thats fine.)
2)Make dthrow go higher at high percents (Also fine.)
3) add some kind of code that makes it impossible for more than 3 chaingrabs at a time (meh)

 

[Baby_Sneak]

If minus chooses to be broken, it should allow broken crap to come in.

 

[NEWB]

Minus already has a firm stance against chaingrabbing. If this is true, something should be done.

 

[Bent 00]

Can this be fixed by tweaking Yoshi rather than Falcon?

I want to see Falcon changes kept to an absolute minimum if possible.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Minus already has a firm stance against chaingrabbing. If this is true, something should be done.

Well, in exchange, they should give some more broken stuff to the weakest chars, like ICs, Zard,etc...

 

[NEWB]

All we can do is hope that they do just that. Even if we don't see that happen soon, it always happens at some point of it's wanted enough.

 

[The Concept]

Well, in exchange, they should give some more broken stuff to the weakest chars, like ICs, Zard,etc...

.....Did you just call Charizard one of the weakest characters?
.....you of all people know better than that.

 

[Thor]

And it's not a bad thing.

Play falcon against yoshi. Dthrow. Win.

In this matchup I don't think its broken because yoshi can move around falcon as if falcon was molasses. though it does put the MU in his Falcons favor because even if you DI up or back, he can still regrab. but yes there are chaingrabs.

So two ways to go about this withou changing falcon or yoshi (who has some amazing potentail):

1)Leave as is. (Thats fine.)
2)Make dthrow go higher at high percents (Also fine.)
3) add some kind of code that makes it impossible for more than 3 chaingrabs at a time (meh)

First of all, Falcon is crazy fast - if the opponent can't grab the Yoshi this Yoshi is either insanely aerial (possible) or the Captain Falcon is doing it wrong - crouch-cancelled sliding grab has INSANE range on Falcon and Falcon has SUCH a fast dance.

Can you DI... down? Down-away? Down-in? Up away? Up in? Jump out? Nair out? These should be checked, since Minus doesn't have many, if any CGs (as an example, Falco can use dthrow as a chaingrab IF you DI really badly, but not if your opponent DIs correctly).

.....Did you just call Charizard one of the weakest characters?
.....you of all people know better than that.

Agreed. Unless you want me to tell y'all about how Falco is weak because he has no real approach options besides a weak reflector that resets to neutral, a really terrible range jab, lasers, and mediocre or poor KO capabilities (Pikachu has better aerial KO options and its grounded KO options are just as strong).

 

[Gold_TSG]

Thor just change your name to Falco. Sheesh.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

.....Did you just call Charizard one of the weakest characters?
.....you of all people know better than that.

Think about this

If ROB got his lasers nerfed to useless tier, it wouldn't kill the character, he would still be viable, he doesn't rely on a couple of moves.
If a Zard got his Nair nerfed, he WOULD be useless. Zard relies on Nair, Stealth rock, and vertical hitting attacks to do DMG. Nerf his only horizontal move and what do you have? A dead dragon

That's a moveset weakness
Think about this

How many weakness can you exploit against MetaKnight? One, and it's his weight, that's it. MetaKnight is just like his vbrawl version, except better in all areas
Zard can get exploited in many ways. Combo food, predictable recovery, limited recovery options, mostly slow attacks that are punishable on shield, horrible against projectiles, limited OOS (up-b can't save him all the time and Nair gets beaten by projectiles no matter how good I space), and a bad glide and glide attack combo.

 

[Bashdemears]

It also works on ike.

And yes thor, spooky's yoshi is mobile. I don't even think its Spookyman. Yoshi, like fox and wolf have cancels that give them like 100000000000billion movement options

 

[Thor]

Thor just change your name to Falco. Sheesh.

I was making a point, not saying I actually think Falco is bad. But you have to play him by being pretty annoying and spacing much more carefully than you have to with most other characters because he is combo bait and rather lightweight (note that I completely left out his reasonably good dthrow, bthrow, and passably strong fthrow, as well as his Phantasm which lets you run away amazingly well and also come flying in at high speeds. And his JC Phantasm usmash that can be pseudo-combo'd into from lasers).

Think about this

If ROB got his lasers nerfed to useless tier, it wouldn't kill the character, he would still be viable, he doesn't rely on a couple of moves.
If a Zard got his Nair nerfed, he WOULD be useless. Zard relies on Nair, Stealth rock, and vertical hitting attacks to do DMG. Nerf his only horizontal move and what do you have? A dead dragon

That's a moveset weakness
Think about this

How many weakness can you exploit against MetaKnight? One, and it's his weight, that's it. MetaKnight is just like his vbrawl version, except better in all areas
Zard can get exploited in many ways. Combo food, predictable recovery, limited recovery options, mostly slow attacks that are punishable on shield, horrible against projectiles, limited OOS (up-b can't save him all the time and Nair gets beaten by projectiles no matter how good I space), and a bad glide and glide attack combo.

No. Zard's fair is fine if you're retreating while using it, and his tilt game is none too shabby (not that one of his tilts couldn't arguably be made a bit safer). You can also hide in Stealth Rock to make tilts and stuff safer. His bair is also not necessarily great but perfectly fine. I personally don't like his dair either but whatever (making it more like 64 Samus where he quickly swipes underneath him, even if it doesn't meteor, would be cool to me)

Also Meta Knight is not even CLOSE to better in all areas - his uair strings don't work NEARLY as well, his shuttle loop is a bit easier to DI to avoid those side blastzone KOs (not that it's easy), his tornado is now easier to intercept than in Brawl (it's a relative nerf, I'll give you that), and he's lighter + no momentum cancelling = much easier to KO. His dthrow is also not as good and his fsmash isn't as good for baiting.

Now don't get me wrong either - MK received a lot of awesome buffs to his other specials (Drill Rush is much better, better recovery, tornado can cancel on hit even if it does way less damage by itself because of its KB angles, his uthrow is way stronger), but he's not "better in all areas" by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

No. Zard's fair is fine if you're retreating while using it, and his tilt game is none too shabby (not that one of his tilts couldn't arguably be made a bit safer). You can also hide in Stealth Rock to make tilts and stuff safer. His bair is also not necessarily great but perfectly fine. I personally don't like his dair either but whatever (making it more like 64 Samus where he quickly swipes underneath him, even if it doesn't meteor, would be cool to me)

"none too shabby", "fine", "not necessarily great". all of this just means "okay", and okay means really bad in a broken game. he has nothing to approach with w/o Nair, and Stealth rock is a MU based move, and unreliable. Fair, has a short sweetspot, and a flinching Sourspot only works when you're retreating. his tilts are slow (outside of Utilt, which is very vertical, and Dtilt, which is too average), and don't lead into more dmg (Utilt is the exception). Zard is really limited, basic, and weak right now in brawl minus.

Spoiler: BUT

Good thing I main Yoshi, and MK now <3

 

[Bashdemears]

Sneak, play glyphs Zard and say that again.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Sneak, play glyphs Zard and say that again.

been played him, my thoughts only solidified.
Plus, Nothing but exploitation on his side, he builded up from your mistakes.

 

[Bashdemears]

Yeah that's called punishing.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Yeah that's called punishing.

Yea you right.
Too bad he still used the same moves i was talking about in the above post. moveset weakness = little variety.
He also relied on his punishment game entirely to do damage.

 

[Valravn]

I think that it's fine if there are characters that excel at punishing, as long as they're good enough at it that it helps them win the match.

 

[Gold_TSG]

Thor, I play Falco. You really aren't teaching me anything new lol.

 

[Baby_Sneak]

I think that it's fine if there are characters that excel at punishing, as long as they're good enough at it that it helps them win the match.

problem is, how far done that spectrum is it acceptable. Melee IC didn't have a great approach and relied entirely on their punish game, but it was okay because their punish game was the best in the game. Zard doesn't have that, nor does he have that damaging combo game like wolf, fox, kirby, MK, ROB, etc... the damage he gets are from alot of pokes and reads, and the pokes aren't even that damaging.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Slow down man.
Pokes?
Spectrum?
READS?
HOW CAN YOU THINK OF READING ON A WEEKEND?

 

[Bashdemears]

Sneak, nothing is wrong with zard.

Chaingrab works on marth and fox too

 

[Baby_Sneak]

Sneak, nothing is wrong with zard

I literally pointed out so much crap I deal with as a Zard player, and there nothing wrong with him.................
Absolutely baffling and kinda scary at the same time, but w/e. Yoshi main with Zard secondary 4eva I guess

 

[Doqtor Kirby]

You gotta remember... I play Purin.

 

[Greatest_Aether]

Ike inspired username+Ike avatar=Ness main.
LOGIC.