Brawl Minus Power Rankings (should this happen?)

Thor

Well-Known Member
Pin Clock I don't know if we want these or not, but we have a few tournaments done and may have more. Power rankings are basically how good people are, but they're somewhat subjective [you can use formulas and stuff with decay rates on wins and based on brackets, but how you make that stuff still depends on values plugged in and gives different results]. If we specifically don't want one, then we shouldn't have one [and this can be deleted], but I've made a rough one based on the previous two tournaments, looking at bracket results, set totals, and also factoring in my own [certainly somewhat biased] opinion. PRs are usually 10 players long, although they can be longer or shorter [depends on the size of the region/group that is being ranked, as well as the preferences of the community].

1. BC - frankly, his own worst enemy is himself. When he's feeling well, he plays very well, and his character choices are strong ones. Not unbeatable, but a force to be reckoned with. He didn't feel well last tournament and dropped out, but I'm not gonna count that against him.
2. Darxmarx - a very strong Kirby with a handy Mario [and maybe more], he has performed very well in both tournaments thus far.
3. Thor - yeah I put myself here. I won the last event, and I usually go about even with BC in friendlies. I joked somewhere that I'm like Westballz in that I can beat anyone, but I can lose to almost anyone too [there's a meme about that I think]. I have a plethora of characters, and that MU spread helped me win the last event [Darx is seemingly not very familiar with fighting Luigi]. However, I'm not comfortable putting myself above either of those players above me based on what we have (I had to rely on Luigi to beat Darxmarx). I probably have the most diverse roster on the PR, with at least 7 different characters used in tournament with wins, and more that have been or may see use.
4. Longbottom - a potent Peach with a powerful ZSS, he placed well in both events. He can take games from people above him, but he split sets with Darxmarx in one event, and while he beat him in the other, he's got a negative record against me and no sets vs BC, so I put him below me. However, based on friendlies we've played, the 4 of us seem interchangeable, more or less.
5. owo - I said opinions are in here for a reason, and that's part of why owo is here. I double eliminated him, but he took games in both sets and almost beat me winner's round 1. He plays an extremely potent Falco and has other characters as well [Marth for sure, and possibly Ike and more]. He is extremely patient and can wear people down. He uses far fewer lasers than I, but his lasers rarely miss their mark [whether shielded or on hit]. Bent admitted to be beaten thoroughly by owo, and I know Bent himself is solid, so that win is not something that should be taken lightly.

[After this point, I'm much less certain of the places, so I'm going more off brackets here].

6. Joeybeta - he placed somewhat mediocre in the first event, but almost took a set off Longbottom in the last event, and won the Netplay tournament without dropping a set. His Lucario seems to use Double Team generously, and with good reason - the move is quite powerful, has mixup options based on which side Lucairo reappears on, and has grab and walljump cancels.
7. Vanity - Again based on opinion, Vanity plays a Diddy Kong that makes solid use of banana peels. While this is a character that tries my patience, his 7th place at the Minus after Christmas was due to losing to myself and Darxmarx, and he took 2nd in the Netplay event.
8. 2scoopsohflames - with an Olimar and Zelda that thoroughly tried my patience, 2scoopsohflame ends up here. While 2scoopsohflame did outplace Vanity last event and beat him in bracket, 2scoopsohflame has only entered one event, so it's unclear if that consistency will be maintained, especially in light of how infrequent Zelda and Olimar are [should someone really practice dealing with those characters, those results could be quite difficult to maintain, unless 2scoopsohflame can adapt back].
9, Flandre64 - has had consistently high placings. I have never played him myself, but top 8 every event earns him this spot.
10. Bent_00 - I'm not sure who would fill a number 10 slot [kinda ran out of people, sort of], so I can't state how deserved this really is, but he beat BC, and that can't be overlooked, even if BC wasn't feeling his best. Whatever your opinion on Warlock Punch ( : P), know Bent has a solid Falcon and decent Ganondorf, so I'm sure he'd be more than happy to defend this placement and climb the ranks. He also lost to only people already on the PR at the last event, so this placement shouldn't be entirely out of the blue.

Honorable mention: Usually a section for people who just barely don't make it, or else for people who don't qualify for certain reasons [there's often an attendance minimum], I'll name Gold_TSG as the only honorable mention - if he still played the game, he would almost certainly be number 1, and with Ganondorf and DK no less, but he no longer plays [or at least, doesn't seem that interested in doing so and didn't enter any of the events].

Feel free to comment, critique, or even list your own power rankings and then compare the two. If people want, this could be taken up by various people and a power rankings could be maintained, which would both help with seeding and let people know who they should be striving to play and beat.
 
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Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Interesting post, Thor. Here's a few thoughts from me:

There are several popular, powerful characters that I have very little experience against. Mainly Falco, Kirby, and Lucario.

I felt like I could have won against Joey's Lucario if only I had more experience against him, and had actually practiced before the tournament.

owo, on the other hand...

Back when I used to play Minus much more often, I think I was closer to owo's skill level; I'd rate my chances of victory at ~40% back then. But I was super rusty in this tourney, after taking such a long break from Minus, so I knew I wouldn't win against his Falco. owo's defensive game is great -- he knew Zelda's attacks very well, and dodged my predictable ranged assault easily. The second match, I was pretty discouraged, so I just chose Ganondorf and Lavender Town, hoping to get some Meteor Smashes... But owo's Falco beat me again. I wasn't surprised, I knew owo was skilled. He doesn't post much, but Thor is right about him being one of the best players here.

I think my victory against BC was a combination of him not playing his best, and BC underestimating Zelda a bit. It was still a close match! I've played BC before -- I honestly expected to lose by 1-2 stocks, judging from past experience. We all have our down times... In the past, I remember being impressed by how well he played many different characters. His Ice Climbers gave me an especially hard time.

2scoopsohflames's Zelda did well in this tourney, but I couldn't help but feel that she was not played to her fullest potential. 2scoops didn't make use of Zelda's more advanced tricks, or even teleport via her ranged hitboxes much. Even the commentators noted that I play a "fancier" Zelda... But I was knocked out early because I didn't play at my best.

If I really put in the effort to get gud at Minus again, I think I could be at least 6th best, maybe tie with owo for 5th. I haven't played against Longbottom much, but his Peach is intimidating. I feel like I could compete with Thor's Falcon and Ganondorf very closely, but other characters... not so much. Right now, 10th is fair enough (thanks Thor).

I'd like to play more against Darxmarx's Kirby, try my luck against Longbottom's Peach, and just play more against Thor, BC, and the rest in general.

My biggest weaknesses right now are being unfamiliar with fighting against some characters (mainly Falco, Kirby, and Lucario), and not knowing enough about all the stages to pick the best ones for my characters' matchups. Oh, and the lack of practice, of course -- which stemmed from disappointment in 4.0b (too much gravity :(), which led to lack of enthusiasm, which resulted in less desire to play.

Finally, I agree that Gold_TSG's DK and Ganondorf were terrors back when he played Minus. If he were still interested, I doubt anyone here could beat him consistently -- he was just that good. Glyph was really skilled, too.

If anyone would like to play against me, let me know. My Falcon, 'Dorf, and Zelda are still strong enough... just rusty!
 
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Gold_TSG

Can't stop The Dorf Train.
I'll be honest here, if they decide to implement that movement buffer I complained about, I may reconsider my position with Minus. After getting so used to Smash 4, and even trying out such a buffer in PM, I feel that's likely the only thing holding me back from readjusting to Minus.
 

Mawootad

Minus Backroom
I'll be honest here, if they decide to implement that movement buffer I complained about, I may reconsider my position with Minus. After getting so used to Smash 4, and even trying out such a buffer in PM, I feel that's likely the only thing holding me back from readjusting to Minus.
I've looked into it and it'll be hard but I'm trying to get it working. Hopefully I'll manage something though!
 

vanity.

Hardcore will never die, but you will.
Honestly, I'd probably be a better player if I played more friendlies, but I don't really seek out matches. Being semi-new to Zelda didn't really help throughout that last tourney, especially since most of my practice with Zelda was offline. Against CPU's. Who never shield against Zelda's hurtboxes. I did go about even with Joey's (2scoopsohflames) Zelda in dittos though, but I did get bodied while playing Diddy. I teleport a lot more than Joey does.

Top 4 looks great to me. I haven't played owo, but I bet he's a great player. Joey's definitely a potent Lucario though.
 

BC

Momentum Based Player
Playtester
The whole list looks great, besides myself. I should probably be down in LB's spot. I'm really not that consistent with any of my characters, and I constantly drop games, to Thor, Darx, and LB. They all deserve to be higher than I am.

But yeah, other than that, the list is perfect. :)
 

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
Here's my Power Rankings for anyone interested:
1st-4th Darx, Thor, BC, LB
The reason we all occupy the first 4 slots at the same time is, I just have no idea where exactly to put us here. Thor is technically correct if you take tourney placings at present into account, but idfk how it will actually pan out. Need more data.

5th Owo
While Owo didn't have a spectacular showing at the most recent tournament, I know he placed very well at the BDOT tournament series, and he was double eliminated from the most recent tourney by Thor in two close incredible campy sets.

6th 2scoopsohflames
This man has the most irratating Zelda I've ever played. He also placed 4th at the most recent tournament, 3-0ing Joeybeta. He also went 2-0 against vanity and took a game off Darx. A really solid player even if it's spammy as hell.

7th JoeyBeta
Joey placed very well at the previous tournament, despite a mediocre showing at the tournament before. He also took me to game 5(more like I took him to game 5) and the entire time I was playing hime I was like ahdiedhidbbdishdhdj wtf is going on didhdjj. He plays Lucario, a character that has always been considered one of the best in the game, however his Falco needs work.

8th vanity
This is a bit more opinionated but I looked at his win loss record against people above here and it's not spectacular. Pretty much why he's here. I was very impressed when he took a game off Thor but his set record against players above him are negative.

9th Flandre64
Flandre is here because he got top 8 both events. I've only ever played him once and wasn't terribly impressed but I do know a counterpicked a character he doesn't really main.

10th Bent 00
Bent ended up beating BC (after he ragequit but still) and otherwise was knocked out by Joeybeta and Owo. He is admittedly pretty rusty and could move up on this list if he keeps in practice

I'll add my opinions on the individual people in the top 4 later. While overall really similar to Thor's list, a couple places were swapped and this is where everyone sits in my opinion based off the events we've had.

Edit: I also based my list off of friendlies I've played with every some of these people. Not the best way I know but I feel I can get a feel for how strong people are when I play them even in friendlies. Anyways, here are my opinions of the top 4 goooooo!

BC: BC is the person I play with the most. We have literally put in well over 100 hours maybe even 200 playing each other. BC depends a lot on momentum. He did really well the first tournament partiall because he kept racking up wins. However, if something jank happens, or he's nervous or he's just not feeling it he falls apart. However, when he has momentum, he uses it like a blade opening you up and gutting you. Playing him can be really frustrating because when he's on, it feels like he can't ever lose. His set count against other top 4 are: Thor 1-0 Darx 1-0 LB 0-0

Thor: Thor is pretty damn good at the counterpick game. He's really good at picking a stage and character that beats yours and following through with it because he has a wide character roster (he used 5-6 characters in the last event iirc). Thor is also really good at getting out of combos and is probably the most competitively-minded out of us.
Set counts are: LB: 3-0 Darx 1-2 BC 0-1

Darx: Darx on the other hand isn't competitively minded at all. This man plays for the love of the game and happens to be really good at it too all with a wiimote! Darx has amazing survival DI and combo game. He is also incredibly patient and knows when to engage and pull out. However his character choice is rather limited (Kirby!) and he is unable to do some things due to the fact he plays on a wiimote. Set counts are: BC 0-1 Thor 2-1 LB 1-2

Finally there's yours truly: LB
I don't really know what to put here for analysis, (maybe someone can write it for me?)
Here's my set breakdown though:
BC 0-0 Thor 0-3 Darx 2-1

As you can see, some of us have the upper hand against each other, and Bc and I haven't played in tourney yet so how this will fall in place remains to be seen.
 
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Farkus

Retired
Here's my Power Rankings for anyone interested:
1st-4th Darx, Thor, BC, LB
The reason we all occupy the first 4 slots at the same time is, I just have no idea where exactly to put us here. Thor is technically correct if you take tourney placings at present into account, but idfk how it will actually pan out. Need more data.

5th Owo
While Owo didn't have a spectacular showing at the most recent tournament, I know he placed very well at the BDOT tournament series, and he was double eliminated from the most recent tourney by Thor in two close incredible campy sets.

6th 2scoopsohflames
This man has the most irratating Zelda I've ever played. He also placed 4th at the most recent tournament, 3-0ing Joeybeta. He also went 2-0 against vanity and took a game off Darx. A really solid player even if it's spammy as hell.

7th JoeyBeta
Joey placed very well at the previous tournament, despite a mediocre showing at the tournament before. He also took me to game 5(more like I took him to game 5) and the entire time I was playing hime I was like ahdiedhidbbdishdhdj wtf is going on didhdjj. He plays Lucario, a character that has always been considered one of the best in the game, however his Falco needs work.

8th vanity
This is a bit more opinionated but I looked at his win loss record against people above here and it's not spectacular. Pretty much why he's here. I was very impressed when he took a game off Thor but his set record against players above him are negative.

9th Flandre64
Flandre is here because he got top 8 both events. I've only ever played him once and wasn't terribly impressed but I do know a counterpicked a character he doesn't really main.

10th Bent 00
Bent ended up beating BC (after he ragequit but still) and otherwise was knocked out by Joeybeta and Owo. He is admittedly pretty rusty and could move up on this list if he keeps in practice

I'll add my opinions on the individual people in the top 4 later. While overall really similar to Thor's list, a couple places were swapped and this is where everyone sits in my opinion based off the events we've had.

Edit: I also based my list off of friendlies I've played with every some of these people. Not the best way I know but I feel I can get a feel for how strong people are when I play them even in friendlies. Anyways, here are my opinions of the top 4 goooooo!

BC: BC is the person I play with the most. We have literally put in well over 100 hours maybe even 200 playing each other. BC depends a lot on momentum. He did really well the first tournament partiall because he kept racking up wins. However, if something jank happens, or he's nervous or he's just not feeling it he falls apart. However, when he has momentum, he uses it like a blade opening you up and gutting you. Playing him can be really frustrating because when he's on, it feels like he can't ever lose. His set count against other top 4 are: Thor 1-0 Darx 1-0 LB 0-0

Thor: Thor is pretty damn good at the counterpick game. He's really good at picking a stage and character that beats yours and following through with it because he has a wide character roster (he used 5-6 characters in the last event iirc). Thor is also really good at getting out of combos and is probably the most competitively-minded out of us.
Set counts are: LB: 3-0 Darx 1-2 BC 0-1

Darx: Darx on the other hand isn't competitively minded at all. This man plays for the love of the game and happens to be really good at it too all with a wiimote! Darx has amazing survival DI and combo game. He is also incredibly patient and knows when to engage and pull out. However his character choice is rather limited (Kirby!) and he is unable to do some things due to the fact he plays on a wiimote. Set counts are: BC 0-1 Thor 2-1 LB 1-2

Finally there's yours truly: LB
I don't really know what to put here for analysis, (maybe someone can write it for me?)
Here's my set breakdown though:
BC 0-0 Thor 0-3 Darx 2-1

As you can see, some of us have the upper hand against each other, and Bc and I haven't played in tourney yet so how this will fall in place remains to be seen.

I have had the fortune of playing with LB offline. He has great movement and a technical play style. Neville is really good, but I've noticed that he needs to be in the right mindset to really dominate. He has decent read game, but relies on his overwhelming pressure to force his opponent to make a mistake where he swoops in and gets the punish; which he rarely misses He can play a large amount of the cast decently well, but only plays Peach and ZSS in bracket, even if the match-up would be better with one of his less played characters. Neville is the most technical of the top 4 and is probably the best offline.
 
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