Approaching

Neville

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
Hey guys! I'm a melee player who picked up Brawl Minus recently. I've been having a lot of fun with fox and I have most of his best shine combo's down pat. but how should I approach with him. I've mostly been dooing SHFFed Nairs to approach and SHDL to get them to approach. Are their any other things I should be doing to spice up my approach?
 
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Thor

Thor

Well-Known Member
This is a Brawl- board, so I assume you are talking about Brawl- Fox. If you aren't, wrong boards entirely dude. Try here though [and ignore rest of this post]: http://smashboards.com/forums/fox.335/

If you hold R while using his side+b, you do it slowly-ish and can cancel it with I think almost anything (for sure grabs). And remember grab game in general [grabs beat shield and Fox has a good grab game] and SH airdodges (not a triangle jump, but vBrawl airdodge in a SH) - I know with regular Brawl Fox he had the fall speed where it was actually a viable mixup - no idea about Brawl- though.

Shine has a bigger hitbox here and since Brawl- Fox CAN wavedash (and jump out of shine) you could always run in with shines and whatnot then wavedash out.

Dash attack is cancellable into usmash at the end of it (and the start for DACUS I believe) - though I don't have frame data for dash attack -> usmash late (But I think it's safe on shield if you hit with late dash attack, at least as a 50-50 mixup of course).

No idea if dair is safe on shield with the buffed shine, though it was in Melee if L-cancelled and linked to shine (though you can't shinegrab in this game...).

Fox doesn't have a rapid kick, so his rapid jabs are awesome (in my opinion). Good for close quarters after a late nair at low percents.

Pretty sure a spaced bair (so you can RAR it) is still safe on shields.

SHDL is good of course. Keep in mind you can also SHL + nair since lasers are cancellable - I was checking on sandbag and I think the hitbox is out before one lands - you can check this of course, but it might be good at close quarters or if you think someone's gonna rush in either during the ditto or if they're kind of close. It also means you can laser REALLY close since you can put out a hitbox with hitstun before you land (again, make sure this actually works...).

Side+B to pretty much anything isn't bad (can SH into whatever from it), I just mentioned the R thing above because it's pretty obscure. But air side+b to nair/shine/dair(?) or side+b -> SH nair/shine/dair(?) are fine for approaching [I think], and even side+b -> early shine to cancel momentum can be a nice fakeout to see how they react if you've been doing it a lot.

More specific questions?
 
Neville

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
Yes I was talking about Brawl- and had a brain fart while typing at very late at night. Thanks for all those ideas Thor. Dair is pretty safe on sheild when SHes from a dash attack because you will usually end up behind them. I usually use the slow Illusion after a waveshine and it usually ends with quick kills. Is Fair a decent option? I can't seem to find a use for it since it doesn't combo into fsmash like in melee. Speaking of which thanks for the dash attack into upsmash option. Wouldn't have known that one.
 
NEWB

NEWB

Well-Known Member
Fair is used kinda like an alt Uair or fastfall dair.

You use it when they are slightly infront of where you can end up. Like of you can't get above them for a dair, so you fastfall fair. This keeps them in the air while you can land and chain with a grab. You use it in the air instead of Uair when you don't end up beneath them and they are infront of you or the extra jump would put you above them.
 
daftatt

daftatt

Member
Illusion cancels are amazing, you should be using them.

Slow Illusiion (illusion canceled into air dodge) into grab. also great for punishing rolls

Illusion-Grab (needs good spacing unlike slow-illusion-grab)

Illusion-Shine

Illusion-D-smash

Illusion-Nair

Illusion-Dair

Illusion-Firefox (for the brave)

Illusion-Uair (for the cocky)

Illusion-Bair (for the even cockier)
 
Baby_Sneak

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
daftatt said:
Illusion cancels are amazing, you should be using them.

Slow Illusiion (illusion canceled into air dodge) into grab. also great for punishing rolls

Illusion-Grab (needs good spacing unlike slow-illusion-grab)

Illusion-Shine

Illusion-D-smash

Illusion-Nair

Illusion-Dair

Illusion-Firefox (for the brave)

Illusion-Uair (for the cocky)

Illusion-Bair (for the even cockier)
Click to expand...

the bolded will get you killed if the opponent isn't already in a disadvantage. especially the firefox option ( which doesnt give you any real reward for such a risk.) i would say for OP that you really should just mix up every last option, as fox has many movement options to use. DashDance, dash cancelled Short Hop, dash cancelled Full Hop, aerial Illusion cancelled into strong Nair ( weak Nair is - on block), etc... even running fullspeed then wavedashing back would work, but it depends on the opponent.
 
B

Bashdemears

Jiggs2stronk
The only person with more mixup potential would be wolf I guess. He can quite literary, be anywhere at anytime.
 
Thor

Thor

Well-Known Member
Illusion to Firefox was so good if spaced properly in 2.X.6 and I want it back (hitting with full startup was about 50%). Doubtful it will come back though...

Also, Illusion -> usmash is good both for KOs and also for low percent setups [if usmash at the end of the Illusion] since it can set up into another usmash or nair or whatever.
 
daftatt

daftatt

Member
Baby_Sneak said:
the bolded will get you killed if the opponent isn't already in a disadvantage. especially the firefox option ( which doesnt give you any real reward for such a risk.) i would say for OP that you really should just mix up every last option, as fox has many movement options to use. DashDance, dash cancelled Short Hop, dash cancelled Full Hop, aerial Illusion cancelled into strong Nair ( weak Nair is - on block), etc... even running fullspeed then wavedashing back would work, but it depends on the opponent.
Click to expand...
I believe my parenthetical descriptions were sufficient to denote the danger of such options, however both illusion-uair and illusion-bair, while difficult to land, are extremely potent moves. I'm confused what exactly dash cancelled Full Hop/Short Hop is though, do you merely mean to say you dash the instant you land?
 
Baby_Sneak

Baby_Sneak

Well-Known Member
daftatt said:
I believe my parenthetical descriptions were sufficient to denote the danger of such options, however both illusion-uair and illusion-bair, while difficult to land, are extremely potent moves. I'm confused what exactly dash cancelled Full Hop/Short Hop is though, do you merely mean to say you dash the instant you land?
Click to expand...
No, as soon as I dash, I jump.
 
teapartycthulu

teapartycthulu

Coolio Julio
Illusion - fair can be interrupted aftet the first kick into shine and platform waveland, which works pretty well for people who like to stay low or have low short hops. If they get hit, it sets up a tech-chase at lower percents.
 
Neville

Neville

GG M8s
Minus Backroom
teapartycthulu said:
Illusion - fair can be interrupted aftet the first kick into shine and platform waveland, which works pretty well for people who like to stay low or have low short hops. If they get hit, it sets up a tech-chase at lower percents.
Click to expand...
Fair cancels into shine?
 
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