4.0 Discussion: Sonic's Dair

[Farkus]

Here, use this thread to argue about Sonic's dair now.

 

[Thor]

I think "changed" instead of "nerfed" is a better word for the poll, since the point would not be a strict nerf [make the move bad], but to remove a stupid aspect of it (no meteor cancel and combos into spring if it doesn't kill you outright) and almost certainly compensate something else on Sonic [either his dair gets some other kind of buff or he gets buffs elsewhere as I mentioned in the other thread (or both).]

I voted yes anyway.

 

[BC]

Sonic's Dair could be easily fixed with just two simple changes. Make the strong hitbox into a meteor, and the light hitbox hit horizontally. It's what they did with it in Smash 4. I think it'd balance the move perfectly here.

 

[Neville]

Sonic's Dair could be easily fixed with just two simple changes. Make the strong hitbox into a meteor, and the light hitbox hit horizontally. It's what they did with it in Smash 4. I think it'd balance the move perfectly here.

Also what they did in PM which I mentioned earlier I liked.

 

[Farkus]

If that was to be changed, do you think it would be fair to get a slight increase in spring jump height or decrease in dair length, since it is already almost too long to recover from?

 

[Neville]

If that was to be changed, do you think it would be fair to get a slight increase in spring jump height or decrease in dair length, since it is already almost too long to recover from?

No, because I'd assume it would have a cancel on a successful hit. If you miss you deserve to have a hard time getting back to stage imo.

 

[Farkus]

No, because I'd assume it would have a cancel on a successful hit. If you miss you deserve to have a hard time getting back to stage imo.

That would make sonic's dair high risk, low reward then.

 

[Neville]

That would make sonic's dair high risk, low reward then.

As an edgeguarding tool yes but it would make a very good platform tech chase tool that leads into edguards or combos like it does in PM and would allow it to be a multi faceted move.

 

[Farkus]

Sonic doesn't need anymore tech chanse tools though, he does need edgeguarding tools though.

 

[Thor]

That would make sonic's dair high risk, low reward then.

Offstage yes, onstage no. And he already has spring, bair, and homing attack.

This also reminds me of a variety of other moves [Falcon's dair, Wizard's Foot, etc.], so I don't really see what the issue with bringing it in line with other attacks is.

 

[Farkus]

Offstage yes, onstage no. And he already has spring, bair, and homing attack.

This also reminds me of a variety of other moves [Falcon's dair, Wizard's Foot, etc.], so I don't really see what the issue with bringing it in line with other attacks is.

So if you mean bring in line, will it become a strong meteor like wizards foot? Because that is an extremely hard meteor with a massive hitbox that lingers for a long time. Do you propose that to be the changes? Get rid of the spike and add all of those features?

 

[Brawl Minus VS]

Overall, I can understand the concern in regards to Sonic's Dair. However, it seems that instead of nerfing the Dair, you could either put on some minor debuffs or remove the meteor effect of the spring. More often than not, when I try to kill an offstage opponent as Sonic, I'll use the Dair, with no need to use the meteor effect of the spring. Simply doing a short hop, Dair, jump again, and Up-B, and you're fine. If you miss, practice. So, again, if you're gonna debuff Sonic, debuff the spring rather than the Dair. If you wanted to compensate for this, just boost the jump height of the spring or somethin'.

 

[Bent 00]

Overall, I can understand the concern in regards to Sonic's Dair. However, it seems that instead of nerfing the Dair, you could either put on some minor debuffs or remove the meteor effect of the spring.

You seriously think it's acceptable for Sonic's D-Air to essentially OHKO at FD Ledge-Level or Below?

 

[Thor]

So if you mean bring in line, will it become a strong meteor like wizards foot? Because that is an extremely hard meteor with a massive hitbox that lingers for a long time. Do you propose that to be the changes? Get rid of the spike and add all of those features?

Nearly guaranteed death on a move this safe is better than guaranteed death [and it seems frankly out of line with other decisions even if it was only an angle-change and NOT made stronger].

IDK why I never responded to this lol.

 

[Brawl Minus VS]

You seriously think it's acceptable for Sonic's D-Air to essentially OHKO at FD Ledge-Level or Below?

Are you kidding? There's so much stuff in Minus that could be considered "unacceptable". But that's what makes it kinda fun. *cough cough Pikachu Down-B cough cough* Seriously, though, it seems like most characters have some means of killing of an offstage enemy at low percentages, be it a Ganon Down-B, G&W D-air, Ike's D-air, and so on and so on. Frankly, Sonic's D-air has a lot more risk than others, given the high speed and distance travelled before you can cancel out of it, it can be more easily punished by your opponent if you miss, or you can just screw up and not make it back onstage as long as your opponent isn't stupid and gives the homing attack a target. The D-air, in my opinion, is fine. And like I said, if you guys feel it could use a debuff, that's fine, but it'd have to be compensated somewhere.

 

[Neville]

Are you kidding? There's so much stuff in Minus that could be considered "unacceptable". But that's what makes it kinda fun. *cough cough Pikachu Down-B cough cough* Seriously, though, it seems like most characters have some means of killing of an offstage enemy at low percentages, be it a Ganon Down-B, G&W D-air, Ike's D-air, and so on and so on. Frankly, Sonic's D-air has a lot more risk than others, given the high speed and distance travelled before you can cancel out of it, it can be more easily punished by your opponent if you miss, or you can just screw up and not make it back onstage as long as your opponent isn't stupid and gives the homing attack a target. The D-air, in my opinion, is fine. And like I said, if you guys feel it could use a debuff, that's fine, but it'd have to be compensated somewhere.

Sonic's dair isn't fun though. At least you can meteor cancel out of Ganon downb G&W dair etc.

 

[Bent 00]

Are you kidding? There's so much stuff in Minus that could be considered "unacceptable". But that's what makes it kinda fun. *cough cough Pikachu Down-B cough cough* Seriously, though, it seems like most characters have some means of killing of an offstage enemy at low percentages, be it a Ganon Down-B, G&W D-air, Ike's D-air, and so on and so on. Frankly, Sonic's D-air has a lot more risk than others, given the high speed and distance travelled before you can cancel out of it, it can be more easily punished by your opponent if you miss, or you can just screw up and not make it back onstage as long as your opponent isn't stupid and gives the homing attack a target. The D-air, in my opinion, is fine. And like I said, if you guys feel it could use a debuff, that's fine, but it'd have to be compensated somewhere.

None of your other examples of "unacceptable moves" are anywhere near as broken as Sonic's D-Air.

It needs to be Nerfed out of "Fast, Safe OHKO Territory" into "Normal Minus-Standard D-Air Territory". Compensatory Buffs are not necessary.