3.Q Pichu Feedback Thread

Pin Clock

Project Leader
Minus Backroom
So, guys, how's the new character?

I personally find Pichu and his combos to be a load of fun, and know his model and animations can use some polishing, but what are your thoughts on how he plays? How's Pichu's power in comparison to others? What changes would Pichu need?
 

Bent 00

Longtime Limit Breaker
Is Pichu's Thunderbolt supposed to connect to him when it's on the ground? As-is, it doesn't affect grounded Pichu.

Does Pichu's Back Air have a use, or is it just a worse version of Pikachu's?

Pichu is fun and has potential, he just needs lots of polish and some tweaking.
 

CaptainEllipsis

Graphic/Character Designer
I didn't like Pichu much at first, but now i'm warming up to his playstyle, and I love him. His combos are fun and wild, and usmash spike-box is really neat for playing around and switching it up. I also really like that he doesn't have very many cancels, compared to a lot of the cast. Up-b JC is fun to play with too.

Only suggestions I can give atm are:
-giving his size a bit of a buff, adding hitlag on side-B (because it gives you literally no time to react, which is only a problem on the receiving end),
-upping the kbg on fthrow so he can't cg across FD (it takes literally no effort on larger characters like DK).

I kinda feel like the nair sourspot could be weaker, but it's fine as-is (I like abusing sourspots :p), and I dislike going into specialfall after up-b jc; I'm sure it's to prevent jc abuse (2X Pikachu), but i'd rather have it do nothing than go into specialfall. The static gfx could be a bit smaller as well i guess.
 

TechMage299

Member
I like him, nothing bad, except that his thunder should be more powerful at meteor smashing.
Even at high percents, it doesn't send them flying straight down.
 

CaptainEllipsis

Graphic/Character Designer
More on Pichu~
-His fair seems completely useless, I've tried it several times, and the most I've gotten out of it was a grab.
-On his usmash, it's kind of hard to time the meteor hitbox, as there's no gfx or anything indicating it.
-I dislike the hurting-himself mechanic right now. Even on a good stock, I'll accumulate about 30-50 from myself alone. Then, even if I star ko the opponent, I only get enough time for -5-10% from taunts. And he's not Lucario, so as he gets more damage, there's no bright side to it; you've just given yourself damage and gotten no payout for it. If it's possible, you could put the damaging yourself only on attacks that miss, or change his resting taunt to gradually take more down, rather than a set 5%.
 

NEWB

Well-Known Member
I kinda agree with that.

Upsmash spikes!???

His bair isn't useless, just different.

I haven't been able to figure out pichu.... Can I see combo vids? There was only one up before that wasn't really good.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
If I had known this existed I would have posted here sooner with my ideas:

His taunt should heal 10%. Maybe more. He takes so much damage from his own attacks (and is super light), so he should recover more than that.

I don't know if this is intentional or not, but his dsmash seems to do damage to him, but ONLY over 100% (maybe it's 150%). Why?

I would love 2 buffs to his neutral+b:

The first would be a thunderhand-style buff - if you hold the button, lay a mine as it does currently. If you just tap it, make it more like Pikachu's tjolt so it moves toward the ground and then acts like a tjolt on the ground. This will augment Pichu's approach mildly. If there is an issue because of setting mines directly on the ground, I understand, but if that's not a problem, I'd love to see this.

The second is (I'd hope) easy to implement - the mines don't expire until Pichu loses a stock (think Stealth Rock). Unless the mines are WAAAAAAAAAAY better than I give them credit for, 4% to set a mine is not great unless you know you'll knock them into it, and if you mess up, that's 4%, which on Pichu adds up quickly. If they don't disappear except due to stock loss, it's not only consistent with stealth rock functioning, but makes Pichu's ability to set traps far better and more rewarding to neutral+B in the air - as is, I hardly do it, because it's more than likely just free percent I gave my opponent.

I was told by someone fsmash deals Pichu 22% when they tested it - I don't know if this is true or not, but if so, that's way too much.

Static seems to do Pichu extra damage, not always the opponents - I'd prefer Ness fair doesn't do so much damage to Pichu.

I might have some more stuff, this is just what I can think of for now.

This may seem like a lot of stuff, but overall Pichu is well-designed and I like him/her.
 

Thanatoast

Grim Reaper in Training
Pichu is a pretty fun and interesting idea, adding a rather different approach to the game as opposed to that of Pikachu. However, there are some things that should be addressed in the next update.

For one, Pichu's model, as OP said, needs some polishing. Despite the fact that Pichu is just as tall as Kirby, he is still, half-the-time, immune to grabs. Even when Kirby crouches, he can still be grabbed, whereas if Pichu crouches or even stands, Grabs tend to go right over him or through him. With grapplers, this presents a rather difficult and broken challenge usually up to the luck of the draw on whether or not the little rat get pummeled or not. In addition, half of the standard attacks like Captain Falcon's jab, will soar right over his head half the time, much like the grabs.

Second, his grab is rather ridiculous. The priority, speed, and almost lack of cool-down on Pichu's grabs almost guarantee him the ability to close down any opponent's approach. His up-throw is on par with that of Ivysaur's up-throw, which makes little sense given how small Pichu is. Granted, it doesn't do much damage, but he shouldn't have the knockback strength on his up-throw as that much.

Third, the amount of time that Thunderjolt lasts is a bit crazy. It has the ability to loop around Final Destination twice, when Pikachu's only goes from one end to the other. I would say reduce the amount of time it lasts so that at most it only goes around one full rotation.

Finally, I'm a bit confused on how his Static is working. Sometimes it will deal extra damage to opponents, sometimes it won't. It's a really cool ability that, if it did damage like I think it is supposed to, would definitely mix up gameplay and force opponents to rework their strategies as opposed to abusing moves with electric-based damage.
 

The Concept

Philosopher & Assassin
Thunderjolt (NB), imo, is fine how it is. There needs to be an advantage to playing Pichu over Pikachu, and I think this is one of them. I still prefer Pikachu, but perhaps that is due to experience. I like the Dair and his SideB skull bash, I find him fun to play as and his combos are slightly different, so it'll take some training before I or any of my friends get any good. They seem to believe that Pichu's attacks are more powerful than Pikachu's. I say BS, then proceeded to destroy their Pichu with my Pikachu, but they said that just because I won that doesn't mean they aren't right, which I agree with. What is your take on this: who's attacks themselves are stronger?
 

justadood

Just a dood with ideas
if you need more differences between pikachu and pichu, then one i was thinking about doing myself was giving his neutral air combo electric damage and either his f air or b air an iron tail spike type attack... ...also, i was thinking of making thunderjolt able to charge to shoot a larger, but slower thnder jolt... it would be easier to dodge under, but not over, and would do three hits of electric damage... ... but these are ideas i was going to try to tinker around with when i got a chance this summer anyway, so maybe i'll find out it sucks or it's not possible... ...but there is definitely room for more differences between the two
 

Kien

A Meaningless Circle
Minus Backroom
With Pichu's revamp he has a lot of differences between his 3.3 version. So, feedback is needed.
 

justadood

Just a dood with ideas
yeah, i think pikachu should get the iron tail move, and pichu should get the "pika-copter" (back air)... it seems more pikachu's style than pichu's, and the vice versa is true too...
pichu's tilt forward attack has very low range :p the mud could go further and be a little bigger to be more easily noticed and to have some more range...
pichu's down B doesn't strike him while he's on the ground... i don't know if this was on purpose... also, a suggestion, make his down B in midair help him rise/give him upward momentum.. it would help to compensate for the fact that it damages him, and would add a motive for letting yourelf be hit by it and get the damage, rather than sliding out of the way...
pichu's side B has almost zero kill potential x_x ...it's ridiculously weak, and damages him too much... pichu in general is very very weak: in an FFA between three pichus, we couldn't dies until late 200% because of how weak attacks were :p the only real kill moves were his up smash, which has really low range, his side smash, same thing, and his dash attack, only in the first few frames... and i guess a few of his throws... but seriously, what the absolute fuck? xP this is beyond ridiculous...
 

justadood

Just a dood with ideas
I really want for Pichu to have a lot more mobility... like, he should get more mobility and be more floaty than Diddy... it could be like diddy:DK = pichu:pikachu . . . so pika's the heavier version, but still obviously a lot quicker and lighter than DK, and even moreso with pichu compared to diddy... at least that's my opinion :p realistically, i can't see pichu with almost any "hard hitting" moves... but if that's the case, he should get a LOT more mobility (maybe just be lighter and floaty in general) to compensate...
 

PowerUp

Well-Known Member
I've only used him a little, so it could just be my inexperience, but he felt a little slow and stiff. Because he is so small and light, I feel like he should be more of a rushdown character than a trap character. Give him a great approach, and give him the choice of applying pressure directly, or quickly setting up his little traps around a shielding opponent. With his self-damage, it would make for very dynamic mind games.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Also, if it hasn't been done, add KBG back to side+b.

I wouldn't mind seeing skull-bash jump-cancellable instead of shield-cancellable (JC-able on startup [charging] and while it's firing). Could make for dynamic, mind-gamey approaches. This buff might also be obscenely good and just invalidate the cast, I have no idea, but it popped into my head just now so I put it here just in case it's genius.
 

The Concept

Philosopher & Assassin
The downB Thunder. Doesn't connect with Pichu's body when on the ground. Only in midair. Pikachu's does connect both times. Intentional?
 

Bashdemears

Jiggs2stronk
The Melee guys say "Pichu is still an airplane and that's good." They guy who was super excited about him thought he was perfect except Pichu's hitbox needs to be extended to his ears, otherwise half of the casts grabs will go right over him.
 

Thor

Well-Known Member
Not positive, but I think thunder not connecting while grounded is intentional, since it does damage to Pichu - it's now an anti-air/juggling tool where you aren't punished with percent for using it while still. Not sure though.
 

The Concept

Philosopher & Assassin
Makes sense, Thor. You would know something about thunder....
....that was a joke....
 

Spookyman

Member
The downB Thunder. Doesn't connect with Pichu's body when on the ground. Only in midair. Pikachu's does connect both times. Intentional?

I think it would actually be nice if it just never connected with him. He doesn't need to take the extra damage, right?
 

The Concept

Philosopher & Assassin
Yeah, I sort of forgot about that when I said it. After Thor pointed it out, it makes sense the way it is.
 
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