If only it worked like that but it's currently bugged so that you tap jump whether or not you have it on in your control settings.
Community Request Thread for the next version after 4.0BC
- Thread starter Bent 00
- Start date
No it's not.
ESC Artiste
The Pot is heavier than Ridley
I second this. While Melee airdodges aren't my thinga dn I would prefer the "modern" airdodge, I still understand where Melee airdodges could be more beneficial, especially with the direction that you can dodge towards. Unfortunately, the meta in Brawl and Sm4sh has seemed to have grown so far as to "read" airdodges, and deliver a punish that 9 times out of 10 will get a strong reaction from the crowd. Plus, the free-fall decent after the Melee-Airdodge makes it less of an appealing option, and thus isn't used as extensively. Airdodge spam will happen at some point in anyone's Smash career, and it is up to them to see their opponent's patterns and punish accordingly. To crank it up a notch, as 03 stated, conditioning a player to airdodge by baitiing them in executing a certain set of moves that results in an airdodge you can expect. Other than that, Brawl/Sm4sh airdodges, please.
Also, these two vids.
Baiting out an airdodge doesn't work out like you'd think in Minus. You can't actually airdodge out of tumble.
Also, I'd like to request for Waddle Dees to stop jumping when you throw out a smash attack or dash attack.
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player_03
P3
Unless you're Zelda, Sheik, or DK. They can use down-B when hitstun ends and instantly cancel it into airdodge.
I tested in the Netplay build and got the same result.
player_03
P3
It turns out that the problem is the move's end animation. As the reflector is going away, the game acts like tap jump is on even if it's off. At any point before Fox returns to his normal falling animation, you can press up to jump. You can even buffer this jump.
On the other hand, if you hold B, you won't be able to jump. That's why I had trouble reproducing this: I kept the reflector going as I tapped the control stick. (Clearly, I'm not very good at Fox.)
On the other hand, if you hold B, you won't be able to jump. That's why I had trouble reproducing this: I kept the reflector going as I tapped the control stick. (Clearly, I'm not very good at Fox.)
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
To be honest, I'd rather have the ability to air dodge out of tumble with brawl air dodges or have melee air dodges. ADing out of tumble leads to some really cool reads, and some characters can already do it. I still stick by my Wolf AD change though, since no one has given me an actual downside.
Don't respond to this, I'm writing a whole paper on my problems with Minus's base mechanics, it'll be up tomorrow. And when it goes up, I want you guys to actually think about what I'm saying.
Don't respond to this, I'm writing a whole paper on my problems with Minus's base mechanics, it'll be up tomorrow. And when it goes up, I want you guys to actually think about what I'm saying.
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Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
So I said this a year ago and got shot down
Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
ho boy not looking forward to reading an entire list of "problems" with brawl - mechanics.
Kymaera K1ng
A PMCC player
Yeah, I don't think a lot of people will agree with them. But they make sense, and aren't too drastic tbh.
alaserdolphin
Member
Game and Watch's Dash Speed should be considerably reduced and his Up-B should be shield-cancellable in the first few frames.
The problem with his dash speed is that it's almost uncontrollable; trying to move from one end of FD to the other, in order to hit a down smash, etc. on an opponent usually results in either being horribly mistimed/misplaced or becoming an accidental dash attack. While the dash speed is a huge benefit, the options he gains as a result aren't as good as they would be if the speed was gained elsewhere. By extension, I think making up-b shield-cancellable (and either directly angleable like fox, or "angleable" like roy) whilst retaining momentum would satisfy the need for the speed, in addition to making the timing much more accessible to the average human being's hands.
I can hear it - "why not just add a wavedash then?", and I'd like to respond by saying that (as the dev team has said endlessly) this isn't melee, and they have no intention (at least to my knowledge) of just making "PM, but with more jank". I think the addition of a Brawl Minus-esque wonky "wavedash" satisfies the competitive need for a single character to have more self-predictable movement (especially when Netplay lag is a problem for many people) without sacrificing the spirit of the game or homogenizing movement mechanics, keeping each character unique.
The reason why I'm proposing allowing the cancel not to be accessible later on is it might make Up-B too good of a move, and he really doesn't need more aerial control.
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Add two floating hitboxes to Zelda's Down Smash.
This should be part of the move anyway, given that it's her only non-B move to miss the entire property that makes her unique. It really wouldn't change her as a character that much in terms of power, but it'd make her kit consistent and, depending on the placement, give her a bit more roll-coverage.
The only issues I can foresee are making the two hitboxes too close to her, and potentially enabling a down smash (holding A) --> down smash (holding A again) --> repeat combo, but that'd require some next-level bad DI from the opponent multiple times, and there are much more devastating moves in the game (Peach Down Smash, to name one) that are in no threat of becoming a worrying problem.
My thought on the placement would be one sideways Zelda of space from the closer tip of her skirt to the center of the sparkle. That makes the move at least a viable choice over side-tilt and simultaneously prevents any low-damage locks through landing both hits at the same time.
The problem with his dash speed is that it's almost uncontrollable; trying to move from one end of FD to the other, in order to hit a down smash, etc. on an opponent usually results in either being horribly mistimed/misplaced or becoming an accidental dash attack. While the dash speed is a huge benefit, the options he gains as a result aren't as good as they would be if the speed was gained elsewhere. By extension, I think making up-b shield-cancellable (and either directly angleable like fox, or "angleable" like roy) whilst retaining momentum would satisfy the need for the speed, in addition to making the timing much more accessible to the average human being's hands.
I can hear it - "why not just add a wavedash then?", and I'd like to respond by saying that (as the dev team has said endlessly) this isn't melee, and they have no intention (at least to my knowledge) of just making "PM, but with more jank". I think the addition of a Brawl Minus-esque wonky "wavedash" satisfies the competitive need for a single character to have more self-predictable movement (especially when Netplay lag is a problem for many people) without sacrificing the spirit of the game or homogenizing movement mechanics, keeping each character unique.
The reason why I'm proposing allowing the cancel not to be accessible later on is it might make Up-B too good of a move, and he really doesn't need more aerial control.
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Add two floating hitboxes to Zelda's Down Smash.
This should be part of the move anyway, given that it's her only non-B move to miss the entire property that makes her unique. It really wouldn't change her as a character that much in terms of power, but it'd make her kit consistent and, depending on the placement, give her a bit more roll-coverage.
The only issues I can foresee are making the two hitboxes too close to her, and potentially enabling a down smash (holding A) --> down smash (holding A again) --> repeat combo, but that'd require some next-level bad DI from the opponent multiple times, and there are much more devastating moves in the game (Peach Down Smash, to name one) that are in no threat of becoming a worrying problem.
My thought on the placement would be one sideways Zelda of space from the closer tip of her skirt to the center of the sparkle. That makes the move at least a viable choice over side-tilt and simultaneously prevents any low-damage locks through landing both hits at the same time.
player_03
P3
As a G&W main, his speed is perfect as-is.
I highly suggest using dtilt or ftilt instead. Both of those moves have a large, long-lasting hitbox, and G&W keeps sliding as he uses them, so they're very easy to land. Dtilt reaches farther and ends a bit sooner, while ftilt tends to send them at a better angle for follow ups.
Note: to ftilt out of a dash, you need to crouch and then ftilt. This requires the tilt stick (unless you happen to have a frame-perfect left thumb), but it's worth it.
You can also utilt, jab, and grab from a crouch, but those are more situational.
Gold_TSG
Can't stop The Dorf Train.
*PTSD from boost-grabbing intensifies*
player_03
P3
I'm pretty sure G&W can't boost grab. If he can, it doesn't actually boost him. Sliding grab is where it's at.
alaserdolphin
Member
I've been trying to use G&W a little as a counterpick character, which is why I'm bringing him up, although it's rare that I can't cover between Jiggs, Peach, and Ganon, so I'd by lying in saying that I know a lot about him.
The issue (which I know is a super unique and niche problem) is I don't have joints in my thumbs, so I have huge trouble with stick inputs that have a small frame window, which you could imagine provides problems when trying to not fly past enemies with a fast character. Having a slightly more controllable way of moving would be beneficial to me, but I know that I'm in the minority.
You're probably right that Down Smash is a suboptimal move; I'll keep that in mind! Given how much Peach depends on the C-Stick for angling Side Smash and for turnip combos, I'd have to change to a second control set every time I go to G&W, which might not be well-received in Netplay in terms of taking up the extra time. I will say, sliding grab may be both the most satisfying and salt-inducing thing in his kit (besides obviously side-B); if I may ask, how am I supposed to punish it besides just making a hard read? Should I just stay away from ledges when playing against him?
player_03
P3
Ah, ok.
As long as you have good timing, you don't need the tilt stick or quick movements to pull off sliding dtilt or sliding grab. All you need to do is rotate the control stick down until you're ducking, and once you duck, press the A or Z button with your other hand.
You might also be able to do sliding jab. That requires letting go of the control stick immediately after ducking, but at least letting go is relatively easy. A frame or two after letting go, you can start tapping A to jab.
Sliding dtilt is the easiest option to hit with. However, it sends them at a low angle, which makes follow-ups hard. Onstage, they may be able to tech, and offstage, G&W won't be able to chase at full speed.
Sliding jab is a bit harder to hit with, but not by much. It doesn't combo into anything, but it's safe on shield, it beats spotdodges, and it can rack up damage.
Sliding grab actually requires precision; about as much as sliding down smash. On the plus side, it's a grab, which means it ignores shields and leads to any number of follow-ups, but since G&W has a very low grab range, the opponent can easily hit you on your way in. Try to condition your opponent to expect dtilt or jab, and once they've learned to shield, mix it up with a grab.
That certainly helps. Onstage, dthrow just puts you on the ground, leading to a tech chase situation.
I should also note that the gif is misleading because Samus didn't meteor cancel. The throw is definitely meteor cancelable, which means that no one will have any trouble recovering until very high percents. However, there is the danger of G&W following up with dair, so if he goes offstage, jump to the side and/or airdodge.
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This is kind of getting off-topic, though. Maybe we should take it to the G&W character forum.
To get back on-topic, here's a request: remove the "spin control stick to glide" input. I'm trying to learn Charizard, and sometimes when I change my mind about what aerial to do, I start gliding instead of doing any aerial at all.
If spinning the control stick started a glide at any time (not just after a midair jump), I'd approve. But if you have to midair jump anyway, you may as well just hold the jump button.
player_03
P3
The default music settings will be used by new players and netplayers alike, so I'd like to request you enable these songs by default and disable the alternatives:
Final Frustration: No Johns
Big Blue: Mute City (Melee)
Lavender Town: Pokémon Tower / Lavender Town
Dreamland: Dreamland (SSB)
Fountain of Dreams: Fountain of Dreams (Melee)
Metal Cavern: Metal Mario
I guess Dreamland's alternate music isn't that bad (just redundant since Fountain of Dreams is an actual stage option), but Pikmin music does NOT belong on Final Frustration.
Final Frustration: No Johns
Big Blue: Mute City (Melee)
Lavender Town: Pokémon Tower / Lavender Town
Dreamland: Dreamland (SSB)
Fountain of Dreams: Fountain of Dreams (Melee)
Metal Cavern: Metal Mario
I guess Dreamland's alternate music isn't that bad (just redundant since Fountain of Dreams is an actual stage option), but Pikmin music does NOT belong on Final Frustration.
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Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
No Johns is the best music track in all of brawl minus in my opinion. gosh i love it so much.
In the original SD Card Netplay Build for PM 3.6, Game and Watch had 2 minor changes. 1. He was given a dance as his victory animation. 2. His victory theme was changed to It is a mystery. What this did was make it look like he was dancing to the music. I'd like for this to be put in Minus.
Thor
Well-Known Member
I don't know what No Johns is, but whatever, not gonna object to anything listed.
If Brawl had Tabuu's theme [the Boss Battle theme or whatever on Smash 4] on Final Destination, can that be made the default on FD? That song is amazing.
Mariosonicman1
Well-Known Member
id like to make a suggestion to you and go into my music on brawl minus and click on final frusteration, and you will see the track no Johns, max out that track and then play on that map once, Then have a good time.